bio balls
- Thread starter afernandez
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Maxxumless
To the Max...
So, what you are saying is that nitrate production will occur regardless of nitrite levels? In other words, that nitrates will continue to be produced without nitrite as a fuel. If so, what is the life expectancy of the bacteria?
Maxxumless
To the Max...
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15309198#post15309198 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jenglish
No, they will not make nitrate out of nothingThey will change ammonia to nitrite to nitrate w/o any means of making it nitrogen gas, nitrate factory is a term that is often used (I use is myself) but is a little bit of a misnomer.
I'm sure there is some residual nitrate production (as stored energy), but it wouldn't be very significant.
So, if you were to follow logic the only thing BB would do would be to increase the speed of conversion (nitrite -> nitrate). So we can deduce that if there is too many nitrates in your water it isn't the fault of the BB's but is instead due to too much biological load on the system. The only 'bad' thing then is that BB only server two parts of the cycle vs LR which provides for all three stages.
Personally, I use BB's in my FOWLR tank due to a pretty heavy bio load and my nitrates remain fairly low.
luther1200
Premium Member
No not necessarily. You could have high NO3 levels in a tank with BB, and have 0 in the same tank with plenty of LR and a good skimmer. I know from past expierence.
Bio-balls leave off after they "produce" the NO3 so they tend to build up in the water column. So even a properly stocked and fed tank could potentialy have a high NO3 level in time, if its main bio filtration is bio balls.
Bio-balls leave off after they "produce" the NO3 so they tend to build up in the water column. So even a properly stocked and fed tank could potentialy have a high NO3 level in time, if its main bio filtration is bio balls.
Maxxumless
To the Max...
I'm not denying that - there are all sorts of scenarios that could account for a plethora of results. What I'm curious about is if the bacteria in the BB chamber can product nitrates without nitrites. As far as I remember the two are linked in a chain of events that rely on each other for life. Thus, all BB's do is increase the speed in which nitrates are produced.
Aquarist007
New member
Aerobic bacteria are responsible for changing ammonia to nitrates.
Bioballs are an ideal setting for them since the water is aerated as it trickles over the bioballs.
afernandez
Never Quit!!
look what I started LOL ps. This all good stuff I am glad to hear the true story on bioballs.thanks I am glad noe I am deff going to stick with my LR. Thanxs guys
Maxxumless
To the Max...
Yep yep... My thought process is that if you have BB and you have nitrate problems the problem isn't necessarily the BB, but too high of a bio load. Else, if the nutrients were removed before they broke down the BB would never have the chance to process them. That of course goes on the assumption that the bacteria cannot produce nitrites/nitrates by some other process. Mechanical filtration is of course different since it actually captures organic waist and thus allows it to break down (a bad thing). So, BB in themselves do not seem to be a bad thing as long as you have a method of removing nitrates from the system (LR and water changes being chief among them).
BlueTangarang
New member
So this question has to do with setting up your filter system.
Say you decide to have a bio-tower for off-gassing and ammonia conversion but still plan to use a deep sand bed with macro-algae, would you place the BB before the refugium to convert as much ammonia to nitrate allowing for the sand bed and alga's to more efficiently convert nitrate to nitrogen gas? or is there a better way of going about this?
Say you decide to have a bio-tower for off-gassing and ammonia conversion but still plan to use a deep sand bed with macro-algae, would you place the BB before the refugium to convert as much ammonia to nitrate allowing for the sand bed and alga's to more efficiently convert nitrate to nitrogen gas? or is there a better way of going about this?
Maxxumless
To the Max...
Flow would have to be really slow to make a difference - so I wouldn't think it would matter where you put bio filtration. The prime reason we put things where we do is for mechanical reasons like bubbles, asthetics, ditrius capture and so on. The breakdown of waste products happens over time, not automatically on the first run through the sump. But it's still good practice to set things up in a logical order.
BlueTangarang
New member
Ah, i see. That makes sense. Thanks for the response.
And as a follow up question, those who use BB as their main filtration and have a fish only system, the nitrates never really spike to stressful levels even if you were to skip out on water changes? Now I know this all depends on bio-load from one tank to the next, but I'm just curious if it's a method you can rely on to keep nitrates at a semi-constant level?
And as a follow up question, those who use BB as their main filtration and have a fish only system, the nitrates never really spike to stressful levels even if you were to skip out on water changes? Now I know this all depends on bio-load from one tank to the next, but I'm just curious if it's a method you can rely on to keep nitrates at a semi-constant level?
wooden_reefer
New member
Good for the filter medium for a QT .
I'd just wrap them up well-stretched with nylon and use in a HOT filter box.
I'd just wrap them up well-stretched with nylon and use in a HOT filter box.
Maxxumless
To the Max...
It would be difficult to compare. I have a very high bio load but my fowlr is like five years old, I often add sand fom other tanks, I add bio-cultures every few months and use strong chemical filtration... I only change water every two months because nitrates never seem to go very high. If you just go with the general rule of adding 1-2 fish every few weeks you'll see what your max load is.
Aquarist007
New member
this is an excellent statement. Studies that have been done(don't ask me to quote them) on skimmate show a very low proportion of nitrates and phosphates in it.
the best way to control organic wastes is in what you the reefer puts in the tank in the first place. Overfeeding, too much reliance on flake food and not rinsing frozen food before using are big factors in ammonia/nitrates and phosphate production.
Using carbon removes a certain group of organics that can cause yellowing of the water
Using a protein skimmer reduces a group of organics that have an affininity for binding with water.
Live rock IMO is the best for processing ammonia through to nitrogen gas
A deep sand bed is setup and maintained properly will reduce nitrates
Chaeto macro algae will absorb nitrates and phosphates to grow. Constantly harvesting the chaeto(removing it) will effectively remove both nitrates and phosphates from your system.
A phosban reactor and gfo will help remove phosphates but again that depends on the amt the user is importing into the system.
One 30 per cent water change is more effective at reducing nitrates then 3 10 percent water changes
Maxxumless
To the Max...
Out of curiosity I just tested and it was just below 5. I very rarely check levels anymore on this tank since it has been pretty consistent, but the highest I remember was around 20 when I lost power and something in the LR likely died.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating anything specifically. Just noting that BB's will in themselves not create a nitrate problem if one does not exist already. If you have high nitrates then you do not have a good enough export system for waist products since BB's do not create waist, they just break it down.
To be clear, so there is no misunderstanding this is my current setup on my 38g FOWLR:
38g tank + 10g sump (wet/dry)
25 lbs of LR (guessing)
HOB Filter only running Purigen + Carbon or ChemiPure (changed every 2-3 weeks)
Sump w/ 2g 1 1/2" Bio Balls
UV 9w (running slow for max effect)
2" Sandbed
Sealife Systems Skimmer (100g rated if I remember correctly)
Auto-Topoff System (5G shared w/ Nano)
No sponges on tank or overflow
Livestock
Bicolor Dwarf Angelfish (4 1/2yr)
Auriga Butterfly Fish (3yr)
False Clown (8yr)
Sixline Wrasse (6yr)
10-15 Nassarius Snails
5 Turbo Snails
5 Bumblebee Snails
2 Sea Stars (4yr's each)
How I do water changes (avg. every 2 months):
1. Place 100 micron sheet in sump trickle filter tray
2. Prepare 55g trashcan with saltwater (pH, sailinity & temp balanced with tank).
3. Do approximately a 5g vacuum of sand (1/2 tank) & toss out old water.
4. Setup siphon from main tank into trashcan and a rio pump from trashcan back into tank. 3 years ago I calculated that it would take a full 18 hrs to fill the trashcan at the rate of siphon via a restricted tube and I matched the return so the the level in the sump would not move - equalizing the rate. This effectively made the tank (system) twice as big. Though this was not as effective as doing a full water change it kept all my levels very low. Over time I got a little lazy and started doing this only every 2 months.
5. Toss out the 55g trashcan.
6. When the water was again clear I took out micron sheet and washed it with the filter socks from the other tanks with bleach, rinsed in RO, let to soak in Prime+water solution for a few hours, rinse again then let dry then put away.
And yes, I know, I'm looking for a home for the butterfly fish. I really like him and don't want to take him anywhere near a local fish store!
Aquarist007
New member
IMO this is worth discussing.
If bioballs are doing their job then the are converting ammonia to nitrites and then nitrates, decreasing the level of nitrates in the display tank.
Over time as the bioballs get gummed up from other organics and detrius, secretions from corals etc etc then they could trap the nitrates with them. It is possible for these trapped nitrates to be released back into the system.
Also, IMO you can't but a time on this because it depends on the overall "cleanliness" of the individual system.
