bayside795
New member
I currently buy my biological water from my LFS. I use it for my monthly water changes. Is there a way I can make my own biological water cheaply?
Biological Water
- Thread starter bayside795
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paulamrein
New member
biological water? are you refering to RO or RO/DI water? or something different? If it is water you get from an LFS it's probably RO water, which can only be achieved with an RO unit. If you are keeping corals I would suggest an RO/DI unit. Which can be purchased at an LFS or the filter guys on the sponsor banners are good.
bayside795
New member
Biological water
Biological water
The water I buy has biological bacteria already in it. Can I take RO water once I get a unit and maybe get biological bacteria in it by adding some of my live rock form my tank?
Biological water
The water I buy has biological bacteria already in it. Can I take RO water once I get a unit and maybe get biological bacteria in it by adding some of my live rock form my tank?
paulamrein
New member
What is your goal with this? Once the biological filtration gets it's start there is really no need to continue adding it. The initial cycle people dose with TLC or another type of biological bacteria water to jump start it, not sustain it. Water changes won't really take it out so you would only have to do it once or twice.
2dawghouse
New member
That's good.... I ought to try that. Sell some RO/DI water and just add a gallon of my tank water and call it biological water. Or better yet sell my water that I removed from my tank after a water change.
Selling biological water $50 a gallon, guaranteed to have bacteria in it.
Selling biological water $50 a gallon, guaranteed to have bacteria in it.
paulamrein
New member
Forgive the sarcasm, we don't mean any harm, we are just appalled at the slant some lfs' take to make a sale. If the tank is more than a couple months old and it has fish in it, no need for bio-water.
Sarcasm may actually not be needed and his lfs maybe not ripping him off. Please don't flame me. Just consider a different train of thought. First this guy hasn't mentioned yet if he is using live rock or sand, second there is a school of thought that think that over time bacteria needs to be replenished as bacteria competes against one another weaker bacteria die off, one case of old tank syndrom hence why they suggest changing rock or refreshing sand. Also think about products the zeovite, UltraLith and Prodibio. Even seachem has a product, Stability, that suggest using it once a month to refesh bacteria, all of these products deal with freshing and maintaning bacteria. So whoes to say this guys LSF isn't adding one of these products to his newly made water. I would find out before purchasing it and see if you really want to go this way then maybe doing you own ro with teh use of one of these above products is cheaper.
In 15 years of keeping the same tank, I have never needed additional types/strains of bacteria. I would save your money on freshening bacteria. Be assured that although bacteria do compete and die, that they find a way to do their job. Changing rock or sand has nothing to do with old bacteria and more to do with phosphate binding.
If the LFS mixes the salt water for you, then you might consider still buying it from them. Some people will pay a premium not to mix their own water. If you want to buy a RO/DI unit and mix your own salt, then you will need a container, several buckets, mixing pump, heater and refractometer (if you don't already have one). The swing arm type hydrometers are garbage.
If you have a fish-only tank (which is the forum that this post is in), then even a bare-bones RO will do fine. I rarely use DI anymore even on my reefs and have chosen to live with a 2, or so, TDS.
If the LFS insists on selling you biological water because your tank needs it, then I would go on down the road - they are either selling you a load of BS or they are just stupid. Either case is a reason to shop elsewhere.
If the LFS mixes the salt water for you, then you might consider still buying it from them. Some people will pay a premium not to mix their own water. If you want to buy a RO/DI unit and mix your own salt, then you will need a container, several buckets, mixing pump, heater and refractometer (if you don't already have one). The swing arm type hydrometers are garbage.
If you have a fish-only tank (which is the forum that this post is in), then even a bare-bones RO will do fine. I rarely use DI anymore even on my reefs and have chosen to live with a 2, or so, TDS.
If the LFS insists on selling you biological water because your tank needs it, then I would go on down the road - they are either selling you a load of BS or they are just stupid. Either case is a reason to shop elsewhere.
spamin76
Premium Member
Quite honestly, most bacteria grow so fast that you will replenish your capacity within a day if nto a few hours.
Also, keep in mind the bacteria will multiply, so if you mixed 1 gallon of this biological water with 10 gallons of RO water of the proper salinity, you would have the same effect pretty quickly.
Also, keep in mind the bacteria will multiply, so if you mixed 1 gallon of this biological water with 10 gallons of RO water of the proper salinity, you would have the same effect pretty quickly.
2dawghouse
New member
Sorry for the sarcasm, I am not trying to rub salt into anybody's wounds. But it is ridiculous what lfs would attempt to sell. Adding additional bacteria to a tank that is already established because of water changes kinda goes against doing a water change.
bayside795: Honestly ask your lfs what is in there biological water, what do they add, and why they are adding it?
You have bacteria in your tank, regardless if you have rock or sand. It is located on your tank walls, inside piping, bioballs, etc...Anything that comes into contact with your water will have some biological bacteria on it. Now yes sand and rock holds the most bacteria, but I am not sure why they would attempt to sell biological water, unless you are just started cycling a tank.
bayside795: Honestly ask your lfs what is in there biological water, what do they add, and why they are adding it?
You have bacteria in your tank, regardless if you have rock or sand. It is located on your tank walls, inside piping, bioballs, etc...Anything that comes into contact with your water will have some biological bacteria on it. Now yes sand and rock holds the most bacteria, but I am not sure why they would attempt to sell biological water, unless you are just started cycling a tank.
Two thing you might want to check out other than what I mentioned before
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1376370
And this might be the product he using
http://www.naturesocean.com/nutri_sea_water.htm
I am not saying that you should use it, I don't use any of these types of products, but that doesn't always mean they are a waste of money or someone is trying to rip some one off. Many of the products I have mention people have had great success with them and I can see them used ina Fish only tank exspecially if it has a high bioload.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1376370
And this might be the product he using
http://www.naturesocean.com/nutri_sea_water.htm
I am not saying that you should use it, I don't use any of these types of products, but that doesn't always mean they are a waste of money or someone is trying to rip some one off. Many of the products I have mention people have had great success with them and I can see them used ina Fish only tank exspecially if it has a high bioload.
JM68
New member
That stuff is a bunch of nonsense. That goes even above the retailer all the way back to the companies. They make this stuff knowing that people will think its some miracle product and buy it. All those bio additives and special waters are a waste of money. (ie. biospira and all that other nonsence) cycle your tank properly and the bacteria will be fine for the life of your tank as long as it is properly maintained. Nobody dumps special water into the ocean to keep the bateria alive. It has a life cycle just like anything else and it will continue to reproduce and do its job as long as conditions are good and there is food present.
spamin76
Premium Member
Well it may be nonsense, but it is possible that less than optimal bacteria populations become dominant in a tank, in which case constant re-seeding could be beneficial. I mean that kind of thing is not unheard of in a lot of real world circumstances, so it is at least possible. Sometimes the best bacteria for one set of circumstances might not be the optimal set in another, so it isn't really fair to assume that what you get in normal cycling is going to be the best. I mean, sure it can do the job, but there may be other beneficial combinations of bacteria species that are not going to be adequately displayed just through standard cycling.
As for dumping special water into the ocean, keep in mind your tank is a very limted approximation of the ocean, and is generally a highly artificial environment. There could be things that can survive in the ocean, that for a number of reasons might not be able to fluorish in a tank.
Also, in the ocean, there is a huge volume of water, and very strong and diverse currents that allow types of diffusion that are impossible in a tank, both in carrying away unbeneficial and bringing in beneficial. Biological filtration that we try to acchieve in a tank is really nothing like what goes on in the real ocean either.
I will agree that it is probably a gimmick, but I wouldn't rule it out as nonsense or out of the realm of possibility.
2dawghouse
New member
No it is not out of the realm of possibility, this product is real, but it is a marketing scam. Of the bacteria that is introduced into our tanks from the introduction of live rock and sand, macro algae, etc. Some more sensative bacteria die due to their inability to adapt to captive systems, food source, or whatever. This bacteria that we introduce from such sources comes from the ocean. Now the product "NaturesOcean" is supposedly natural sea water with bacteria from the ocean.
What is the difference in the bacteria, both are from the ocean? If NaturesOcean is truely original sea water, then the sensative bacteria will die off, as it did before, when the bacteria from the live rock was first introduced. And if that sensative bacteria does die then you are left with the same bacteria you have already and you are wasting money at $15 a pop. Now if they introduce bacteria into the water, then it is engineered and not natural (synthetic salt water with biosphira).
You dont need to introduce bacteria into a tank that is already cycled, you have all the bacteria that you will need. So long as you dont bio-overload the system or introduce to many fish at one time.
JM68
New member
On top of that this garbage sits on a shelf in a store for months in an air tight jug. How much live bacteria can possibly be left to put in your tank. Even if it was live when they put it in the jug, its not anymore. If you can't keep bacteria alive in your tank how are they keeping it alive in a jug with no food or oxygen??? ITS A GIMMICK!!!!
spamin76
Premium Member
Well... a lot of bacteria get on just fine with no oxygen, many have pretty elaborate methods of anaerobic respiration. And also it is unclear what these guys may use as food, so saying they have no food is not necessarily a given. A lot depends on exactly what is in the package, and how efficiently these bacteria can do what they do.
But if they were sitting for months, unless they could go dormant, you're right that it is likely you are buying sacks of dead bacteria, depending on how successfully they can metabolize their neighbors.
But if they were sitting for months, unless they could go dormant, you're right that it is likely you are buying sacks of dead bacteria, depending on how successfully they can metabolize their neighbors.
2dawghouse
New member
So it would be safe to say that buying this product is not only a waste of money, but also (introducing a colony of dead bacteria) you are jepordizing your system.
I would like to hear a sales rep. or others who have used this product chime in.
I would like to hear a sales rep. or others who have used this product chime in.
