Bionic/BRS 2 part
- Thread starter tjmarty
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HighlandReefer
Team RC
They both work and are fine to use to maintain alk and calcium. BRS is cheaper. 
Perhaps the alk part of B-Ionic is a blend of sodium bicarbonate & sodium carbonate where as BRS has two recipes where you use one or the other or you can blend them if you like.
For both products the calcium part is calcium chloride.
Perhaps the alk part of B-Ionic is a blend of sodium bicarbonate & sodium carbonate where as BRS has two recipes where you use one or the other or you can blend them if you like.
For both products the calcium part is calcium chloride.
tjmarty
New member
They both work and are fine to use to maintain alk and calcium. BRS is cheaper.
Perhaps the alk part of B-Ionic is a blend of sodium bicarbonate & sodium carbonate where as BRS has two recipes where you use one or the other or you can blend them if you like.
For both products the calcium part is calcium chloride.
I am using BRS now and I know it's cheaper, but does the sodium carbonate and the calcium chloride that is in BRS recipe 1 have any trace elements in them?
From what I read on ESV's web cite bionic contains trace, and you don't have to add the Mag separate.
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HighlandReefer
Team RC
If you can post what you are referring to it will help. I don't believe ESV can add enough mag without precipitation to their calcium chloride unless they cut back on the amount of calcium added. If ESV added mag to their alk part, it would precipitate out.
All your calcium and alk supplements do contain some contaminates especially in the calcium chloride, which are the trace elements. FWIW, I would not want more trace elements added other than those present as contaminates, since the trace elements are high already in reef aquariums according to what research we do have.
All your calcium and alk supplements do contain some contaminates especially in the calcium chloride, which are the trace elements. FWIW, I would not want more trace elements added other than those present as contaminates, since the trace elements are high already in reef aquariums according to what research we do have.
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tjmarty
New member
That's is exactly what I am trying to figure out ,I have heard from other people and from my own experience when I used bionic that it seemed like my mag was more stable and did not have to dose mag.
SO the contaminates that are calcium chloride are the trace elements!
HighlandReefer
Team RC
It is difficult to discern what is going on when the manufacturer does not tell you exactly what is in their product.
You can add magnesium chloride and calcium chloride into the same mix, but the concentration of calcium would be reduced to compensate for the magnesium. You can only get so much to dissolve in rodi water. It all works out in the wash, so to speak, regarding costs since you would need to add more to meet your calcium needs, if this is indeed the case.
Another aspect is the ratio of chloride to sulfate. If you only add magnesium chloride, your sulfate will become out of balance.
Personally I prefer to add mag separate at water change time, since mag is used so slowly and I prefer to use a proper ratio of mag chloride to mag sulfate to maintain proper balance.
You can add magnesium chloride and calcium chloride into the same mix, but the concentration of calcium would be reduced to compensate for the magnesium. You can only get so much to dissolve in rodi water. It all works out in the wash, so to speak, regarding costs since you would need to add more to meet your calcium needs, if this is indeed the case.
Another aspect is the ratio of chloride to sulfate. If you only add magnesium chloride, your sulfate will become out of balance.
Personally I prefer to add mag separate at water change time, since mag is used so slowly and I prefer to use a proper ratio of mag chloride to mag sulfate to maintain proper balance.
HighlandReefer
Team RC
Your welcome.
I use over-saturated kalk water as my top-off which meets my demand with some vinegar added to make it work.
I use over-saturated kalk water as my top-off which meets my demand with some vinegar added to make it work.
kellerexpress
New member
I have used both and they both work equally well. BRS is cheaper, but it seems like I am using almost double the amount the maintain my parameters, compared to when I used b-ionic. Not sure why. Maybe b-ionic is more concentrated???
I would speculate that Bionic has magnesium chloride in calcium as I know C-Balance does.
My opinion on heavy metals fall in line with this group. However I do think that ULNS that see better coloration are in fact performing a controlled bleaching experiment. They are using excess metals that the corals are adjusting to. These are not natural colors or conditions but cause a desired effect.
Attached link from recent Burger Zoo conference has Hans Balling describing the trend of excess trace element addition.
http://www.burgerszoo.eu/media/108812/chapter%2015.pdf
My own opinion if you do correlate a color change you have intentionally stressed coral. Some people find this attractive. I see no need to do this during grow out of colonies that are 95% of SPS tanks.
My opinion on heavy metals fall in line with this group. However I do think that ULNS that see better coloration are in fact performing a controlled bleaching experiment. They are using excess metals that the corals are adjusting to. These are not natural colors or conditions but cause a desired effect.
Attached link from recent Burger Zoo conference has Hans Balling describing the trend of excess trace element addition.
http://www.burgerszoo.eu/media/108812/chapter%2015.pdf
My own opinion if you do correlate a color change you have intentionally stressed coral. Some people find this attractive. I see no need to do this during grow out of colonies that are 95% of SPS tanks.
Bionic claims to be, and may be more ionically balanced than the DIY with respect to the minor ions (things like bromide, fluoride, strontium, etc). Whether that is important or not is hard to say, but many people use my recipe (which BRS sells a version of) just fine.
As to magnesium, the BRS recipe has magnesium, as does B-ionic, but if you feel you need more, it is easy to accomplish with the DIY by simply using more.
As to magnesium, the BRS recipe has magnesium, as does B-ionic, but if you feel you need more, it is easy to accomplish with the DIY by simply using more.
HighlandReefer
Team RC
Thanks for the link Slow_Leak.
This is the first I have read this article.
Too bad they didn't test more European tanks for trace elements other than just Sr. FWIW, I get the impression that perhaps now the Europeans will take Randy's advice and stop dosing the trace elements from this article. It's interesting that they also dosed Sr and the levels they tested in the two tanks are double the NSW levels & yet that is their target level.
From the article:
"From year three the two smaller systems had received twice a week extra additions of a SrCl2.6H2O solution, which was an addition of approximately 0.01 mg Sr2+.L-1.d-1. The largest system received addition of the same solution from year 5 on at an average rate of 0.02 mg Sr2+.L-1.d-1.
Even though the water management and stocking densities of corals differed between the systems it’s clear that strontium addition via a calcium reactor and chemical addition will keep the strontium level between a predefined range of 10 to 12 mg Sr2+.L-1. When possible the addition management can be changed when the trace elements are measured on a regular basis.
Trace elements in reef aquaria –"
It's also worthwihle noting that Randy's tank came in at the recommended level for Sr while using IO salt mix without any supplementation.
This is the first I have read this article.
Too bad they didn't test more European tanks for trace elements other than just Sr. FWIW, I get the impression that perhaps now the Europeans will take Randy's advice and stop dosing the trace elements from this article. It's interesting that they also dosed Sr and the levels they tested in the two tanks are double the NSW levels & yet that is their target level.
From the article:
"From year three the two smaller systems had received twice a week extra additions of a SrCl2.6H2O solution, which was an addition of approximately 0.01 mg Sr2+.L-1.d-1. The largest system received addition of the same solution from year 5 on at an average rate of 0.02 mg Sr2+.L-1.d-1.
Even though the water management and stocking densities of corals differed between the systems it’s clear that strontium addition via a calcium reactor and chemical addition will keep the strontium level between a predefined range of 10 to 12 mg Sr2+.L-1. When possible the addition management can be changed when the trace elements are measured on a regular basis.
Trace elements in reef aquaria –"
It's also worthwihle noting that Randy's tank came in at the recommended level for Sr while using IO salt mix without any supplementation.
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Author speculated that ratios were as important as amount. I do respect his opinion.
I was interested in investigating a balanced ionic additive that would be closer to ESV while sticking with BRS products. Options I saw were Fauna Marin Trace ABC and Tropic Marin Anionic/Cationic. Costs were reasonable but contents were confusing.
Burger Zoo Chapter 16
This article is bit off topic but interesting as well. I run Algae Turf Scrubber and they suggest low nutrient systems are prone to cyano. Several suggestions were made to offset. I run ATS on SPS dominated tank and find it very forgiving and easy to maintain despite many people not liking them with older designs.
I was interested in investigating a balanced ionic additive that would be closer to ESV while sticking with BRS products. Options I saw were Fauna Marin Trace ABC and Tropic Marin Anionic/Cationic. Costs were reasonable but contents were confusing.
Burger Zoo Chapter 16
This article is bit off topic but interesting as well. I run Algae Turf Scrubber and they suggest low nutrient systems are prone to cyano. Several suggestions were made to offset. I run ATS on SPS dominated tank and find it very forgiving and easy to maintain despite many people not liking them with older designs.
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