Black Bandit ANgelfish

[Psionicdragon]

It is stronger, to a degree, but for certain circumstances that's the reason why its not necessarily better

ah i see. well as jnc have said, once it ruptures, it will continue to degrade. it looks to be getting worst and skinnier. so its pretty dead by the end of the week =/ sigh

 

[afishionado]

To elaborate, I believe this specimen to have an acute swim bladder infection, hence the recommendation for a brief stint with Erithromycin.

After 5-7 days of Erithromycin, be sure to remove this medication from the water column, completely, and the begin the Sulfa 4 TMP regimen.

Im confident this will cure your Apolymichthys. Ensure you are diligently feeding a nutritious, varied diet, during this time and afterwards, keeping an eye on NH3 levels as the bacterial filter will be decimated ...

 

[afishionado]

To elaborate, I believe this specimen to have an acute swim bladder infection, hence the recommendation for a brief stint with Erithromycin.

After 5-7 days of Erithromycin, be sure to remove this medication from the water column, completely, and the begin the Sulfa 4 TMP regimen.

Im confident this will cure your Apolymichthys. Ensure you are diligently feeding a nutritious, varied diet, during this time and afterwards, keeping an eye on NH3 levels as the bacterial filter will be decimated ...

 

[Psionicdragon]

To elaborate, I believe this specimen to have an acute swim bladder infection, hence the recommendation for a brief stint with Erithromycin.

After 5-7 days of Erithromycin, be sure to remove this medication from the water column, completely, and the begin the Sulfa 4 TMP regimen.

Im confident this will cure your Apolymichthys. Ensure you are diligently feeding a nutritious, varied diet, during this time and afterwards, keeping an eye on NH3 levels as the bacterial filter will be decimated ...

Thanks. I'll switch out the meds tomorrow.

I agree with you about the swim bladder infection. The cipro has reduce the redness, but its still a little bulge. The main concern is the rupture lesion thingy on its head.

 

[Psionicdragon]

To elaborate, I believe this specimen to have an acute swim bladder infection, hence the recommendation for a brief stint with Erithromycin.

After 5-7 days of Erithromycin, be sure to remove this medication from the water column, completely, and the begin the Sulfa 4 TMP regimen.

Im confident this will cure your Apolymichthys. Ensure you are diligently feeding a nutritious, varied diet, during this time and afterwards, keeping an eye on NH3 levels as the bacterial filter will be decimated ...

I just realized that I actually don't have that in my fish cab. Can I use the API triple sulfa?

 

[pktech]

Stupid question - Can you catch it & apply some sort of antibiotic to it directly? Is that an option worth considering?

 

[jnc914]

I have tried the method mentioned above. I used Bio-Bandage in conjunction with Maracyn 2, however the skin still degraded around the rupture site on the Bandits that had the same condition.

I agree with "afishionado" that the fish likely has a Swim bladder infection, however that has nothing to due with the ruptured lump on the fish's head. At this point, one or both conditions will ultimately lead the fish to perish regardless of treating with Erythromycin and Sulfa.

If the fish is still eating, I might try the Bio-Bandage and continue with the broad spectrum Antibiotics. The only issue I could see with continuing to use the Cipro is that it may have been too strong for a fish that is already in a weakened state.

 

[Allmost]

Mine had the same Issue I think... recovered by itself. I was ready to treat with antibiotics, but never saw the need to. didnt want to hurt the fish's liver and other internal organs neither. but I am no expert at this

Note under the mouth.


then recovered ...



wish you and the little bandit the best of luck

 

[Psionicdragon]

its still eating, but its still getting skinnier. The infection is not completely cured as mentioned, but it has significantly improved. The rupture has gotten worst after the bath.

 

[Allmost]

sorry but are you sure the fish is infected with something ?

long antibiotic treatment is not good for any living creature.

 

[pktech]

sorry but are you sure the fish is infected with something ?

long antibiotic treatment is not good for any living creature.

So how would you replenish the probiotics in fish?

 

[Allmost]

sorry I dont understand the question.

 

[Psionicdragon]

sorry but are you sure the fish is infected with something ?

long antibiotic treatment is not good for any living creature.

I cannot be 100% certain, but based off of research and conversation with af ew people that are knowledgeable regarding this angel, we came to the conclusion that it was.

 

[pktech]

sorry I dont understand the question.

@ Allmost: Sorry - I was thinking in human terms - after a completed dosage of antibiotics, we'd need to replenish the "flora" in our digestive tracts that were eliminated by the drug, so I was thinking about the same requirement in fish (probiotics = good digestive bacteria). Not sure if that applies here, but I think it should ...

 

[Yurivd]

its still eating, but its still getting skinnier. The infection is not completely cured as mentioned, but it has significantly improved. The rupture has gotten worst after the bath.

Do you not think it is internal parasites

Also look into kanaplex it is maid by seachem for fish. It is even absorbed by the shin and can be used with para guard

 

[Psionicdragon]

Just took that tonight. If you look at the head, that is wear it has ruptured and moving from that point toward the back, you can see the new lump. Under the fin, you can see the infection which looks like it is getting better.

 

[Psionicdragon]

Do you not think it is internal parasites

Also look into kanaplex it is maid by seachem for fish. It is even absorbed by the shin and can be used with para guard

honestly, since the issue started, i really have no idea what is affecting it.
thats why I am using Cipro for broad spectrum effectiveness, formalin for potential uronema or whatever, metro for hlle effect, cp for well ick / uronema, also prazipro for internal parasites and PP for cleaning.

 

[sedgro]

As an MD married to a DVM let me chime in a little about antibiotics here as i think there is a lot of anecdotal evidence out there with little understanding of the actual science. As aquarists, 99.9% of the time we are treating infections empirically - we have no clue what we are treating as few of us have the resources to send a specimen to a lab to get a correct ID. Ciprofloxacin is a broad spectrum antibiotic with good coverage of gram positive and negative bacteria. It is particularly effective against ciliated bacteria like Vibrio that are frequently cited as marine pathogens (see whole thread on treating host anemones with Cipro in the anemone forum). It binds to an enzyme unique to bacteria that essentially keeps them from using their DNA for any purpose including replication. It is bacteriocidal unlike the macrolide antibiotics (erythromycin) which are bacteriostatic (keeps them from replicating). Macrolides are also very broad spectrum and do cover some atypical species of bacteria that might not be covered by Cipro. Sulfa drugs like trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole have a similar spectrum of coverage to the fluoroquinolones (Cipro, enrofloxacin,...) but work by poisoning bacterial synthesis of folate which they require for reproduction of their DNA.

If you do not feel the Cipro is working, I highly doubt changing to another class of antibiotics with a similar spectrum is going to make much of a difference. You might consider adding a second agent rather than switching from one to another, but it makes me nervous to be treating one fish with so many medications. If you feel the Cipro is having some effect, you might consider increasing the dose - it is possible your dose is just at/below the threshold necessary to have an effect. Observe the fish after you increase the dose so that you can get it out if it appears to be having some toxic effect- don't make the mistake of doing it before bed. The listed dose for most fish antibiotics is extrapolated from human/small animal dosing and a good measure of trial and error. Different animals eliminate/metabolize meds at different rates. I doubt, other than for food fish, that the elimination/metabolization rates for fish have been studied so the correct dose is really just an educated guess.

Metronidazole has a completely different mechanism of action and covers mostly anaerobic bacteria and some protozoa. Might get you something the other meds aren't giving you.

 

[humaguy]

As an MD married to a DVM let me chime in a little about antibiotics here as i think there is a lot of anecdotal evidence out there with little understanding of the actual science. As aquarists, 99.9% of the time we are treating infections empirically - we have no clue what we are treating as few of us have the resources to send a specimen to a lab to get a correct ID. Ciprofloxacin is a broad spectrum antibiotic with good coverage of gram positive and negative bacteria. It is particularly effective against ciliated bacteria like Vibrio that are frequently cited as marine pathogens (see whole thread on treating host anemones with Cipro in the anemone forum). It binds to an enzyme unique to bacteria that essentially keeps them from using their DNA for any purpose including replication. It is bacteriocidal unlike the macrolide antibiotics (erythromycin) which are bacteriostatic (keeps them from replicating). Macrolides are also very broad spectrum and do cover some atypical species of bacteria that might not be covered by Cipro. Sulfa drugs like trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole have a similar spectrum of coverage to the fluoroquinolones (Cipro, enrofloxacin,...) but work by poisoning bacterial synthesis of folate which they require for reproduction of their DNA.

If you do not feel the Cipro is working, I highly doubt changing to another class of antibiotics with a similar spectrum is going to make much of a difference. You might consider adding a second agent rather than switching from one to another, but it makes me nervous to be treating one fish with so many medications. If you feel the Cipro is having some effect, you might consider increasing the dose - it is possible your dose is just at/below the threshold necessary to have an effect. Observe the fish after you increase the dose so that you can get it out if it appears to be having some toxic effect- don't make the mistake of doing it before bed. The listed dose for most fish antibiotics is extrapolated from human/small animal dosing and a good measure of trial and error. Different animals eliminate/metabolize meds at different rates. I doubt, other than for food fish, that the elimination/metabolization rates for fish have been studied so the correct dose is really just an educated guess.

Metronidazole has a completely different mechanism of action and covers mostly anaerobic bacteria and some protozoa. Might get you something the other meds aren't giving you.

excellent info...

 

[caribfan]

+1, this is why I love this forum. Great info! Hope the Bandit is doing well, is it still eating?