Black Bandit ANgelfish

[Psionicdragon]

+1, this is why I love this forum. Great info! Hope the Bandit is doing well, is it still eating?

It stopped eating that pic was the latest one that I took. I did it after giving it a fw bath.

 

[Psionicdragon]

As an MD married to a DVM let me chime in a little about antibiotics here as i think there is a lot of anecdotal evidence out there with little understanding of the actual science. As aquarists, 99.9% of the time we are treating infections empirically - we have no clue what we are treating as few of us have the resources to send a specimen to a lab to get a correct ID. Ciprofloxacin is a broad spectrum antibiotic with good coverage of gram positive and negative bacteria. It is particularly effective against ciliated bacteria like Vibrio that are frequently cited as marine pathogens (see whole thread on treating host anemones with Cipro in the anemone forum). It binds to an enzyme unique to bacteria that essentially keeps them from using their DNA for any purpose including replication. It is bacteriocidal unlike the macrolide antibiotics (erythromycin) which are bacteriostatic (keeps them from replicating). Macrolides are also very broad spectrum and do cover some atypical species of bacteria that might not be covered by Cipro. Sulfa drugs like trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole have a similar spectrum of coverage to the fluoroquinolones (Cipro, enrofloxacin,...) but work by poisoning bacterial synthesis of folate which they require for reproduction of their DNA.

If you do not feel the Cipro is working, I highly doubt changing to another class of antibiotics with a similar spectrum is going to make much of a difference. You might consider adding a second agent rather than switching from one to another, but it makes me nervous to be treating one fish with so many medications. If you feel the Cipro is having some effect, you might consider increasing the dose - it is possible your dose is just at/below the threshold necessary to have an effect. Observe the fish after you increase the dose so that you can get it out if it appears to be having some toxic effect- don't make the mistake of doing it before bed. The listed dose for most fish antibiotics is extrapolated from human/small animal dosing and a good measure of trial and error. Different animals eliminate/metabolize meds at different rates. I doubt, other than for food fish, that the elimination/metabolization rates for fish have been studied so the correct dose is really just an educated guess.

Metronidazole has a completely different mechanism of action and covers mostly anaerobic bacteria and some protozoa. Might get you something the other meds aren't giving you.

Very good info. The infection isn't the issue with the bandit as it is slowly going away. It was worst compare to that pic I just posted recently.

The main issue and concern is the ruptures since I have no idea what is causing it and new ones seem to delevep along the way. I was thinking about lowering the salinity to 1.016. But I am holding off as I am doing too many changes / additions/ meds/chemicals/cocktails.

 

[caribfan]

Was Rufus able to give you some pointers on how to treat the fish? It seemed from his earlier post that he had a magic bullet for this issue.

 

[dnsfpl]

my bandit(avatar) ate mysis, seaweed and pellet since the very first day

weeks later he ignored mysis and seaweed, only ate pellets

weeks later he starts to accept seaweed again

and now coming 6 months old, he still refuse mysis shrimp

i saw him pecking on sponges too

 

[Psionicdragon]

Was Rufus able to give you some pointers on how to treat the fish? It seemed from his earlier post that he had a magic bullet for this issue.

Nope

 

[Psionicdragon]

my bandit(avatar) ate mysis, seaweed and pellet since the very first day

weeks later he ignored mysis and seaweed, only ate pellets

weeks later he starts to accept seaweed again

and now coming 6 months old, he still refuse mysis shrimp

i saw him pecking on sponges too

It was eating a week ago, but hasn't really ate for awhile.

Did you ever experience the lumps ?

 

[dnsfpl]

no lumps but experience ich after a week, but fully recover(probably immune) after a month of battle

 

[ccampbell57]

Just took that tonight. If you look at the head, that is wear it has ruptured and moving from that point toward the back, you can see the new lump. Under the fin, you can see the infection which looks like it is getting better.

I have seen this on many bandits. It is bacterial and will probably not end well for your fish.

3 of the 8 bandits that I have had had this exact same issue. One of them even had a very red rear area. I treated with aggressive Furan and she pulled through. The other 2 with significant redness under the pectoral area stopped eating and passed within a week of the blotch appearing.

Good luck...

 

[Arcuatus]

Ive never gotten around registering myself on rc till I started following this thread.

The reason being that my bandit has the same issues as yours. It started with a small reddish lump on it's flank which went away after a few weeks. Recently, another lump has appeared at the base of the pelvic fins much like yours. Additionally, another bigger reddish lump has appeared at the base of the pectoral fins as well.

Coincidentally, I noticed it started developing when I dosed prazi. Correlation or causation im not too sure. Maybe the flukes dropping off caused it. Maybe it was already developing under the skin even before that and it wasnt just noticeable to the naked eye.

Nonetheless, when the reddish lump on its flank appeared, I simply maintained good water quality and let it heal on its own. Sure I freaked out but the fish was swimming and eating well.

Now its been a few weeks since the two red lumps started appearing but its still chowing down mysis, seaweed and nls pellets with gusto. I am tempted to catch it out for a paraguard bath but I would let it heal again by itself unless more lumps starts to appear.

I realise bandits are really water quality sensitive. A slight change in parameters, you can really see its unhappiness. As for your bandit not eating, I would stick out my neck to say it has went through too many medications as you noted. I would say if you're at your wits end and the condition of the bandit doesn't improve in the coming weeks, pull out the medication. Let it get "clean" water. Better for it to be eating and receiving nutrition rather than the lumps healing but it's slowly wasting away.

Best of luck man.

 

[Psionicdragon]

Ive never gotten around registering myself on rc till I started following this thread.

The reason being that my bandit has the same issues as yours. It started with a small reddish lump on it's flank which went away after a few weeks. Recently, another lump has appeared at the base of the pelvic fins much like yours. Additionally, another bigger reddish lump has appeared at the base of the pectoral fins as well.

Coincidentally, I noticed it started developing when I dosed prazi. Correlation or causation im not too sure. Maybe the flukes dropping off caused it. Maybe it was already developing under the skin even before that and it wasnt just noticeable to the naked eye.

Nonetheless, when the reddish lump on its flank appeared, I simply maintained good water quality and let it heal on its own. Sure I freaked out but the fish was swimming and eating well.

Now its been a few weeks since the two red lumps started appearing but its still chowing down mysis, seaweed and nls pellets with gusto. I am tempted to catch it out for a paraguard bath but I would let it heal again by itself unless more lumps starts to appear.

I realise bandits are really water quality sensitive. A slight change in parameters, you can really see its unhappiness. As for your bandit not eating, I would stick out my neck to say it has went through too many medications as you noted. I would say if you're at your wits end and the condition of the bandit doesn't improve in the coming weeks, pull out the medication. Let it get "clean" water. Better for it to be eating and receiving nutrition rather than the lumps healing but it's slowly wasting away.

Best of luck man.

Thanks! Are you an expat in singapore? Stuff there are expensive!

Well the bandit recently pooped out the white stringy thing. Right now, the infections look like it cleared up. I am going to be doing another water change but with no antibotics for a bit. Its been almost 2 weeks since shes been in it. (yes its a female)

 

[Psionicdragon]

So just finished giving the bugger a bath. looks like the original needle infection is gone and a few others are gone. The lumps on one side of the body and forehead are gone. there are a still few more lumps and it looks like no new one has formed.

Not sure if I should continue with the Cipro? Its been 14 days i believe.

 

[pktech]

Wow Psion, Sounds like improvement to me Good luck & best wishes for her!

 

[RxMike]

If you treated for 14 days with Cipro I would suggest just observing the fish. Make sure to keep water quality optimal. Time to start feeding and get it eating like a pig IMO.

 

[Psionicdragon]

Going to do two post since I have photos to show. There is good news and bad news:


Before

After

No before lump except the first pic, but here is after lump

 

[Psionicdragon]

It still has a small lump or so, but its going away. The other ones have disappeared and the infections have healed up pretty well. I don't see a huge scar on the head.

The infection on the pelvic and where the needle was inserted is gone/healed.
She doesn't have flukes, but earlier during the prazipro treatment she had a white stringy poop. The white spot is the flash on my camera.

Thats the good news

Bad news...its as fussy as a baby! OMG!!!!! it is hard to get her to eat. One day she will nibble on some worms, next day she doesn't even look at it. Give her pellets, ignored. Give her flakes, ignore.

So I am going with live brine again and just keep rotating until she gets plump.

 

[Psionicdragon]

This pic is to show that she is very active still:

Doesn't like to be man handled.

 

[jrobison]

Updates?

 

[ssdawood]

Yah Bud hows the fish. Been following this thread and wanted to know.

 

[Psionicdragon]

It recovered from all the lumps and bacterial infection. It was looking really good. However, all of a sudden one night, it started breathing rapidly. I tested for all the usual and nothing was wrong.

It kept breathing rapidly for 3 more days then it passed away. So it does seem that Cipro and some other medications that I used helped with the lumps and infection.

 

[Flatwater]

Bandits

Bandits

I would never take a Bandit over 4.5", they definitely have a difficult time adjusting to captive fed meals like mysis, brine, etc. Ideal range is 2-3" if you don't want the hassle of feeding a tiny juvenile every 2 hours. When I first started keeping Bandits, Rob Lower (RIP) would send me fish that were 4.5-5" and would take days to eat anything. He sent me three at that size and only 1 survived longterm. Matt sent me a 2.5 and a 3" Bandits that were pristine and ate right out of the bag. Back in 2009, I paid $900 for the pair!!!

Here are some current prices on Bandits based on size ( or at least what I have been quoted over the last 6 months):

Juvi- $1200-$1400 each
2"-3" $900-$1000
3"-4"- $800-$900
4"-5"+ -$600-$800

I would love to know where you got your pricing and a link for me to purchase.... thanks