Black spots/lines on tang

[reeferdano]

Wonder if anyone could help identify this problem.

 

[HumbleFish]

I'm kinda stumped. It looks like it could be multiple things. Black Ich (or something else worm-like) is one possibility. Bacterial infection is another. But I'm also wondering if those aren't just "holes" in his skin.

Was this fish QT'd and/or treated with anything? Can you get him out of the DT? That would be my first move.

 

[reeferdano]

This all started after introducing a sohal tang about 2 weeks ago, which was an opportunity we jumped on knowing our new Qt tank room wasn't quite finished. Hindsight... Anyways, what's done is done. Soon after the sohal began scratching against the rocks now and then but seemed healthy otherwise.

Then about 5 days ago these dots/lines appeared on the sailfin. Not knowing what to do about it I quickly set up our previous 72 gal as a Qt tank and moved all 10 fish out of the 150 display. 3 are tangs, the yellow looks fine as does the sohal who is still scratching around a bit.

The LFS saw the picture yesterday and thought it might be black ich, advising me to do a hyposalinity treatment which I have began. The sailfin has had one 5 minute fresh water dip so far but looks about the same, eating and swimming around with the others. Any help with this mystery would be greatly appreciated.

 

[HumbleFish]

The LFS saw the picture yesterday and thought it might be black ich, advising me to do a hyposalinity treatment which I have began. The sailfin has had one 5 minute fresh water dip so far but looks about the same, eating and swimming around with the others. Any help with this mystery would be greatly appreciated.

A f/w dip might temporarily help with black Ich, but hypo does nothing. Black Ich is actually worms on the fish; so you'd need to use a de-wormer such as Prazipro to eradicate it.

 

[reeferdano]

Thanks for your help Humblefish.

Sorry, been so busy with all this I forgot to mention I added a dose of prazipro into the qt tank this morning.

Qt tank is at 019 SG, do you think I should stop the Hypo?



Should I leave the display fallow for a period?

 

[HumbleFish]

Thanks for your help Humblefish.

Sorry, been so busy with all this I forgot to mention I added a dose of prazipro into the qt tank this morning.

Qt tank is at 019 SG, do you think I should stop the Hypo?

I would focus on one treatment at a time. Right now you are treating for possible worms. So, I would stop lowering the SG (for now) and leave it at 19. You will need to do a 25% WC in 5-6 days, and dose Prazi again.

After that, you can turn your attention to the Sohal and his scratching. Unless he's got black dots too; the scratching is likely a symptom of external parasites (probably Ich). Pushing on with full hypo would be one way of dealing with it. But you'll need a perfectly calibrated refractometer and a ATO would help too. Keeping the SG constant at 1.009, with no deviation whatsoever, is essential to hypo's success.

Should I leave the display fallow for a period?

I have no idea what the fallow period is for black Ich. But for regular Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) it is at least 9 weeks.

 

[reeferdano]

Good advice, might be best to just slow down here and do one thing at a time. I have never had to treat anything in my 10 years of reefing, so this is all very new and scary for me.

I am already set up with a new refractometer, the calibration fluid and an ato. Will wait a week at 019 and see how things progress with the prazipro.

I haven't seen anything on the sohal but his actions would lead one to believe he has ich. With everything I had read about the scratching I expected something to show up on him.

In the meantime should I be treating the main display with prazipro, as a way of trying to kill off the worms likely in the sand bed?

Also would you advise any treatment for bacterial infection while the fish are in qt?

 

[HumbleFish]

I am already set up with a new refractometer, the calibration fluid and an ato. Will wait a week at 019 and see how things progress with the prazipro.

Just a disclaimer - I'm no fan of hypo. I've read too many threads where it seems to fail for one reason or another. But some swear by it. I would just suggest reading up on some of the other methods (copper, tank transfer, chloroquine phosphate) before you commit. You've got about 10 days to research & decide, as it will take you that long to get thru the 2 rounds of Prazi.

In the meantime should I be treating the main display with prazipro, as a way of trying to kill off the worms likely in the sand bed?

If you go 9+ weeks fallow to eradicate Ich; then any worms should die off in that time frame too. The fallow period for flukes (another type of worm which afflicts s/w fish) is only 4 weeks.

Also would you advise any treatment for bacterial infection while the fish are in qt?

I wouldn't unless the Sailfin's spots don't respond to Prazi, and you have reason to believe he (or one of the other fish) has a bacterial infection. I only use antibiotics on fish on a as-needed basis. They are not as "easy" on the fish as, say, Prazi.

 

[reeferdano]

Ok, so the prazi seems to be working well on the sailfin, black dots are almost gone. I did a water change and put the final prazi dose in this morning.

The sohal is still scratching, and is now showing visible signs of white ich. After much reading on the subject I have decided to treat the qt tank with cupramine. The question is, should I start now with the prazi still in the system or wait for five more days?

The instruction say not to mix prazi with any other medications but several people say they use it with cupramine at the same time?

 

[cngreg]

I've seen cryptocaryon look like this on some tangs and moorish idols. Pigment/mucus discoloration around where the parasites are attached. The timing seems about right for this disease as well. Don't discount it and consider doing a skin scrape if you can catch the fish and have a microscope to find the parasite and then compare to pics on the internet.

 

[HumbleFish]

The question is, should I start now with the prazi still in the system or wait for five more days?

The instruction say not to mix prazi with any other medications but several people say they use it with cupramine at the same time?

You can (and I have during emergencies), but I would just wait the 5 days if you can. Supposedly Cupramine interacting with Prazi decreases Prazi's effectiveness (or it might be the other way around).

Btw, did you do 2 rounds of Prazi?

 

[reeferdano]

Thanks Humblefish.

Yes two rounds, which will be complete in about 4 days. Then do I need to remove the prazi with carbon before starting the cupramine?

Some of the fish, especially the yellow tang isn't eating much, is that normal for prazi?

Also the water is quite cloudy today?

 

[HumbleFish]

Then do I need to remove the prazi with carbon before starting the cupramine?

Prazi only remains active for roughly 72 hrs, but running carbon/doing a WC is never a bad idea in-between treatments. Worms often release toxins as they are dying, so all more the reason.

Some of the fish, especially the yellow tang isn't eating much, is that normal for prazi?

Very normal. Prazi is probably the safest med we use; but still has side effects (appetite suppression being the most common).

Also the water is quite cloudy today?

I've noticed this sometimes with Prazi too. But you want to double check the ammonia just to be sure. I'm not 100% sure if Prazi interferes with ammonia test kits like Cupramine does. I would double check with one of these.