Bleach vs Acid

[bertoni]

Thanks for the data point. That sounds like what I'd expect if there's enough acid in the solution to dissolve a lot of rock.

 

[Wendell]

I gave the lye bath a try on some Pukani that was pretty covered in dead matter. My lye mix was pretty much what was previously recommended and the pH was 12.3 when the rock had been soaking for a day. After two days when I went to rinse it off I got some foam, soap bubble foam. Yes, it would appear that I made soap in my rocks. Two days outside with a protein skimmer in my trashcan of rock next to a fan blowing foam into the yard. High pH, Low pH, add ca+ add salt, change water, still trying to figure out how to rinse it all out.

 

[bertoni]

Lye added to fat will create soap, so I'm not surprised that you saw some issues. I've done that experiment with olive oil. I would rinse the rock very well, and let the skimmer get out the soap, or maybe give it an acid bath, if that didn't work.

 

[hitawaah]

Lye added to fat will create soap, so I'm not surprised that you saw some issues. I've done that experiment with olive oil. I would rinse the rock very well, and let the skimmer get out the soap, or maybe give it an acid bath, if that didn't work.

Absolutely correct, For hundreds of years( before the big manufacturers made soap in huge amounts to be sold at the store) Lye mixed with fat and say lavendar which gives it a good smell and grows wild was all that was used in the U.S. People made thier own soap for laundry so it isn't surprising at all that was the end result at all. I agree with bertoni your best course of action is to rinse and repeat many times if needed. I personally would only acid wash your rock(not sure what kind you have) as a last resort. IMO acid washing is about the nastiest and toughest thing you can do to your rock as anything I have ever seen. I speak from experience my pukani is still in a brute tub after an acid bath roughly six plus weeks ago leaching phosphates which I'm grabbing by using phosfree and a 10 micron filter sock with my pump directly blowing water through it. Just washed the socks yesterday to what I believe will be my final few weeks(my phosphates where .04 ppm) in the brute tub then I'm gotta let the rocks set out for another month or two. Rinse, Rinse, Rinse if you can. GL with your rocks!

 

[Wendell]

Absolutely correct, For hundreds of years( before the big manufacturers made soap in huge amounts to be sold at the store) Lye mixed with fat and say lavendar which gives it a good smell and grows wild was all that was used in the U.S. People made thier own soap for laundry so it isn't surprising at all that was the end result at all. I agree with bertoni your best course of action is to rinse and repeat many times if needed. I personally would only acid wash your rock(not sure what kind you have) as a last resort. IMO acid washing is about the nastiest and toughest thing you can do to your rock as anything I have ever seen. I speak from experience my pukani is still in a brute tub after an acid bath roughly six plus weeks ago leaching phosphates which I'm grabbing by using phosfree and a 10 micron filter sock with my pump directly blowing water through it. Just washed the socks yesterday to what I believe will be my final few weeks(my phosphates where .04 ppm) in the brute tub then I'm gotta let the rocks set out for another month or two. Rinse, Rinse, Rinse if you can. GL with your rocks!

Thanks, the foam went down after three days and some salt in the water. It has been running clean all day today. The rock was pukani and I did do an acid bath but I feel like it eats away too much rock so I will avoid it in the future. I used swimming pool phosphate remover liquid for 24 hours while I was waiting for the foam to clear away and my last phosphate test showed unreadable amounts. I will let it soak another day and check it again, but it would be nice to think the phosphate is behind me.

 

[hitawaah]

Lye added to fat will create soap, so I'm not surprised that you saw some issues. I've done that experiment with olive oil. I would rinse the rock very well, and let the skimmer get out the soap, or maybe give it an acid bath, if that didn't work.

Thanks, the foam went down after three days and some salt in the water. It has been running clean all day today. The rock was pukani and I did do an acid bath but I feel like it eats away too much rock so I will avoid it in the future. I used swimming pool phosphate remover liquid for 24 hours while I was waiting for the foam to clear away and my last phosphate test showed unreadable amounts. I will let it soak another day and check it again, but it would be nice to think the phosphate is behind me.

That will be an issue that is different for every person, like I said I'm still dosing phosfree and using 10 micron filter socks to catch any free phosphates that bind with the phosfree. My pukani was fresh never been cleaned until I bought it so I had to do all the work and hopefully it won't leach phosphates into DT causing major algae problems. Like I said though acid washing pukani you lose a lot of rock. GL

 

[kecked]

Chemical cure

Chemical cure

Doing pukani.

Using NaOH. To hydrolize organics
Using high heat around 150F
This simulates the safe conditions in a standard tissue digester
24 hr

Tap water rinse

Sodium percarbonate soak 24 hr just to whiten then rock

Tap water rinse

Oxalic acid to remove some rust stains 24 hours room temp

Tap water rinse

Muriatic acid wash for 1 hour to remove phosphate and other metals

Rinse in di water
Rinse inlanthanium chloride solution

Into tank to cycle with tank water

That's where I am now.

 

[kecked]

You know I'd pay brs to precook and oxidize this stuff

 

[gguertin]

Dumb question... I bought bleach from Wally World it looks like a no name brand but is concentrated... I didn't see gallon jugs that were not concentrated how do I determine the amount to use?

 

[bertoni]

It's close enough to Chlorox that the same rates would be fine, unless it's marked as "concentrated". I'd try something like ¼ cup per gallon to make a disinfecting solution. Be careful about breathing bleach fumes, particularly if you have asthma or some other pulmonary issue. Good ventilation could prevent health problems.

 

[gguertin]

It does say concentrated but I don't see a percentage or amount.

I just don't want to overdue it. I'm going to run the rock in a bucket with a algae scrubber after.

 

[bertoni]

There won't be any harm in extra bleach as long as everyone stays away from the fumes. I think the "concentrated bleaches" are something like twice the strength of regular bleach, so maybe ⅛ cup per gallon should be fine.

 

[Dr. X]

Why not try bleach?

Why not try bleach?

I've always been a champion of using the most efficacious, rapid fix possible (latter not so good for reef tanks, I've learned).
So Randy's gentle, patient answers to the many "why bleach?"questions never quite scratched my itch.

But I have to give Randy props, not only for being one smart cookie, but also one of the most patient people on this forum.

I have some very old dead coral with some very old embedded/encrusted thick algae(or dino or cyano, or combo) on it. From a freshwater tank. This stuff is tenacious. And thick.

While awaiting shipment of sodium percarbonate and sodium hydroxyde , I put these in a bucket with plain bleach (maybe 5:1 with water-eyeballed it). And let it sit overnight. And was amazed and delighted that the rocks were completely clean the next morning. Imagine that!

So, oftentimes simpler is better; you just have to have faith and try it. Thanks Randy! :thumbsup:

 

[Dr. X]

Warning about "OxyClean Free"

Warning about "OxyClean Free"

For those tempted to use this as a cheap and available form of sodium percarbonate, read the SDS first!

It may be free of dyes and whatnot, but they snuck in a surfactant/emollient that is specifically very toxic to aquatic life. So don't do it! (And if you do, let us know what happened).