Boosting Unchelated Ca ?

[jamey1015]

So I got TM to replace my low alk tmpr with there regular salt because they said it will be 9-10 dkh and told me that the pro-reef is suppose to be 6 dkh and instead of dealing with all that again I just asked for the other salt now my problem is the ca is only 380 which isn't that bad at all but what if I want to boost the ca while mixing it that said.

"Just a word of caution as you have mentioned improvising with Ca and Mg with other salts. Remember, if you want to increase values of Ca and Mg with Tropic Marin, it MUST be done in the tank and NOT in the freshly mixed salt solution. This is due to the fact that we use all unchelated Ca and boosting the amount in a freshly mixed solution will result in a calcium carbonate precipitate"

Also I was a little disappointed the mag is only 1100 that is defiantly too low. So how should I raise this just dosing the tank? it doesn't make sense with the mag part either because it's a lot easier to mix right in a barrel ahead of time.

I had planned to mix the new bucket with the half bucket of the low alk tmpr and I have a ton of Oceanic (580ca & 1650mg) that I was going to toss in the mix and hopefully end up with a suitable product.

When I told them of my plan with the oceanic they told me the levels in it could be that high but of compounds that are virtually unusable biologically by your corals.

At least did have great customer support just not sure on a few of there responses and what to do about the ca and mag because of what they are saying.

 

[bertoni]

The comments about boosting the calcium in the tank don't make sense to me, yet. I don't know of a salt that uses chelated calcium, although I suppose it's possible. You do need to make sure that the pH of the saltwater is okay before dosing. Some salt products mix up to an initial high pH that might cause issues.

Magnesium at 1100 ppm is very low, and makes me wonder whether maybe the kit is bad, the salt has a problem, or the SG is very low.

 

[jamey1015]

Well me neither but I don't exactly understand unchealated ca and why it would make any difference if I'm adjusting a bucket of it or a tank full of it but I do remember it being discussed in the past but don't remember the details.

I personally haven't tested my bucket as of yet but here is what was disclosed to me in regards to it

"Hi James,

It is true that the Mg in the original formula is around 1150ppm. This, along with the 380ppm of Ca are about as hi as you can go without causing percipitation when the alk is up around 9 dkh, when using only unchealated forms of Ca. This is never an issue as Ca and Mg are always added to the tank in reefs, in high quantities every day. And, the advantages oif using unchealated Ca is so important. If you absolutely want higher numbers, you have to go with the Pro-REEF and embrace the lower alk.


All the best,
Lou Ekus
Director of US Operations
Tropic Marin USA
44 Center Street,
Montague, MA. 01351"


"Glad to hear back from you. Let me know how you make out with the original formula TM. Just so you know, the formula of PRO-REEF has not changed and the salt has never had a dkh as high as 8. I think the tests you are making now are actually closer to the intended/actual dkh values than the tests you made before getting 8dkh. Whatever the issue, I hope we can clear things up with the original bucket on its way to you. Just a word of caution as you have mentioned improvising with Ca and Mg with other salts. Remember, if you want to increase values of Ca and Mg with Tropic Marin, it MUST be done in the tank and NOT in the freshly mixed salt solution. This is due to the fact that we use all unchelated Ca and boosting the amount in a freshly mixed solution will result in a calcium carbonate precipitate. If you need more information about this, please feel free to call me anytime at the number below or email with your phone number and UI can give you a call.

All the best,
Lou Ekus
Director of US Operations
Tropic Marin USA
44 Center Street,
Montague, MA. 01351"

Like I said before great customer support just confused on it.

 

[bertoni]

It is true that the Mg in the original formula is around 1150ppm. This, along with the 380ppm of Ca are about as hi as you can go without causing percipitation when the alk is up around 9 dkh, when using only unchealated forms of Ca.

This part isn't correct. Magnesium can be raised to very high levels (1500 ppm+), and it helps prevent precipitation, not cause it. 380 ppm Ca⁺⁺ also is low and can be raised substantially without problems.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I wouldn't agree that it is great customer support since some of it is obviously wring.

I agree I've never heard of any current commercial salt mix using chelated calcium.

I'd treat it no different than any other mix, and one can certainly boost magnesium in any salt mix. I would not take advice from whoever is writing to you. They may be a relatively unskilled salesperson who is reading and possibly even misunderstanding a translated script.

 

[jamey1015]

I wouldn't agree that it is great customer support since some of it is obviously wring.

I agree I've never heard of any current commercial salt mix using chelated calcium.

I'd treat it no different than any other mix, and one can certainly boost magnesium in any salt mix. I would not take advice from whoever is writing to you. They may be a relatively unskilled salesperson who is reading and possibly even misunderstanding a translated script.

lol that might me true but at least they sent me a bucket of replacement salt albeit with problems of it's own.

And I'm not sure if everyone is reading it right were talking uncheleted ca, Jonathan and you both say cheleted in your replies when the title of the post is "uncheleted" ca. unless the two are the same I actually have no idea honestly.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Chelated calcium is a calcium ion bound to an organic material. Unchelated calcium is just a free calcium ion, as is naturally the main form in normal seawater.

No salt mix that I have heard of that is currently sold contains chelated calcium (or at least none claims so).

We understand the Tropic Marin claims it is unchelated, and we have no dispute with that. It is the implication that others do and Tropic Marin is different that bothers us, along with the untrue comment about not being able to boost magnesium in the salt mix for that reason.

 

[jamey1015]

Ah that makes much more sense and I see exactly what Jonathan and you were saying, I just wasn't thinking of it like that, lol went over my head for a minute with the cheleted talk.

Well seems like I traded one problem salt for another the Ca really is pretty close 380 but mg of only 1150 is pretty low although I haven't personally tested so maybe they are wrong about it too.

Thanks Again!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If you need to boost it, that isn't very hard or expensive to do.

 

[jamey1015]

If you need to boost it, that isn't very hard or expensive to do.

What would be best/cheapest method for raising it?

I know a lot of guys are running there sps tanks higher so I did boost mine it had been staying pretty much consistent at 1280 with water changes but I'm at 1400 right now and recently bought the brs product that is already the two mag products they sell mixed together that makes a gallon but looking back I probably should have just bought a pound or so of both the magnesium chloride and sulfate and mixed them myself because in my 215 gallon system it took the whole gallon but it's up so.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Cheapest would be Dowflake and MAG flake, but you can also get materials in bulk from BRS and Buckeye Field Supply.