Brand new controller X10 not working at all

[stugray]

I just received my Aquacontroller 3 Pro, and I cannot get the X10 unit ( Power Line Interface PL513 ) to work at all.

For one thing I will mention that the instructions for the power control using X10 are completely absent from the Instruction Manual. BUt sine I have used X10 before I was able to figure it out ( I think )

However, I:

1 - Hooked up the PL513 using the RJ11 cable it came with from the controller to the module.

2 - Plugged the module into the wall

3 - Set the alarm module to A9 & plugged an alarm module into the wall ( same outlet )

4 - told the AC to manually turn ON the alarm (defined as A9 by default) using the status webpage, clicked update & then toggled from on to off repeatedly

5 - Tried to turn ALL of the outputs on manually

6 - Verified that I could turn on the alarm module using Another X10 control interface that I bought & it works fine, so no house wide X10 interference problems

7 - tried another RJ11 cable ( verified that the pinouts are the same as the one supplied with the unit ) no luck!


So... Do I:

A - have a bad PL513 unit

B - Have a bad aquacontroller
or
C - Need to configure something that I missed?

Any help would be appreciated!

This is why I am upset that I cannot see the water level limit switches directly... Because I cannot turn ANYTHING on or off to test to see if the rest of the system is working.

Stu

 

[Deleted member 143833]

So you see the LED on the AC line interface turning on/off; it should do that when the AC3 is sending commands.

Do you have any other X10 device you can test? I have seen home devices kill X10 signals even plugged into the same outlet but hopefully that would not be the case. In my case a computer UPS caused it to fail; that is when I moved to direct connects only.

 

[stugray]

The LED on the X10 Power Line Interface does does not blink at all. It only comes on full brightness when I plug it in & it stays on all the time.

I am guessing that the PL513 is toast.

Thanks for the tip!

Stu

 

[clp]

Also check that you are using a 4 conductor telephone cord, as the wrong cable would cause the same symptom. Most telephone cords only have 2 internal wires.

Curt

 

[stugray]

Curt,

Thanks! I did verify that both the cord that came with the unit & the one I tried both had all 4 wires ( although the factory supplied version wasnt even completely crimped... good thing I have a RJ11 crimper )

I called MD today, and they are sending me another PL513 ASAP.

I will post the results, but I have FAR more faith in the quality of the AC3 than I do in anything X10.

My lifetime experience with X10 quality is about 50/50, and the support is non-existant. I once ordered a X10 camera & couldnt get it to work at all. X10 support practically laughed at me for even calling!

Stu

 

[stugray]

Ok,

So I recieved my new PL513 module from MD, plugged it in & it is STILL NOT working.

I can turn the alarm module on & off with the handheld remote, but not from the AC3P.

Can someone please tell me definitively: When you plug in a known good PL513 into the wall WITHOUT being hookked to the AC3P..... does the LED stay lit all the time or not?

My LED is lit all the time, even with no cable plugged in.

Stu

 

[Deleted member 143833]

Sorry, I sold all my X10 stuff; you might want to just give Neptune a call if someone doesn't get back to you before tomorrow; hey, Neptune might still be open...

 

[itZme]

Let me go check mine for the light (Ken used to have a lot of X-10's but now they are cluttering up my basement lol )... in the meantime did you try setting the alarm as B 01 or B 02 instead of A09? I have 4 items being run from x-10's on my AC3.

-- Kevin

 

[itZme]

Yes ... LED light is on all the time when plugged into outlet. Removed phone cord and light did not change. Hope that helps you get it straightened out.

 

[stugray]

itZme,

Thanks for the input.


So I now have two PL513 modules & neither one works.

I made a RJ11 break out box/cable & I can look at the trigger output from the PL513 with my oscope. All I see is a noisy 60 Hz sinusoid with ~0.4V PkPk signal.

My understanding is that the PL513 should be sinking current at the zero-crossing detect. When I disconnect the BOB cable from the PL513 & check the DC voltage across pins 1 & 2, I get zero volts.

Shouldnt I be seeing the ~5 Volt pullup voltage inside the AC3P?
I checked across pins 1 & 2 and also each pin referenced to the 9V gnd at the power input jack.

Curt,
Anything else I can check before I send the AC3P & both PL513s back to Marinedepot?

I had planned on buying the direct connect units next spring, but I need to know for sure that the AC3P is working now so I dont want to wait until next year to learn that it WAS the AC3P that wasnt working.

Stu

 

[clp]

The red lights on the control interfaces should blink when commands are sent out. To test use control & status -> manual control option to force the AquaController to send out commands. The telephone cord used to connect the AquaController to the PL513 must have 4 internal wires - most telephone cords only have 2 wires.

Curt

 

[stugray]

Curt,

Thanks for the response.

I have tried the manual control from both the front panel & the web inteface. In both cases I have verified that the status of the output changes. I even toggle off/on/off.

The red light on the PL513 never blinks. It is ON all the time full power.


As I stated above. There is no Zero Crossing pulse coming out of the PL513, when there should be.

Since the Aquacontroller must provide the Pullup Voltage for the PL513 to work, I measured it. It is zero volts.

Can I verify that I should see 5-9V on Pin 1 of the RJ11 wires?

Stu

 

[stugray]

Back it goes....

Stu

 

[stugray]

Curt,


You responded:
"Also check that you are using a 4 conductor telephone cord"

To which I have responded:

"Thanks! I did verify that both the cord that came with the unit & the one I tried both had all 4 wires ( although the factory supplied version wasnt even completely crimped... good thing I have a RJ11 crimper )"



Later you responded:

"The red lights on the control interfaces should blink when commands are sent out."

To which I had already responded:

"When you plug in a known good PL513 into the wall WITHOUT being hookked to the AC3P..... does the LED stay lit all the time or not?

My LED is lit all the time, even with no cable plugged in."

AND I said:
"The LED on the X10 Power Line Interface does does not blink at all"

When trying to troubleshoot, I said:

"Can I verify that I should see 5-9V on Pin 1 of the RJ11 wires?"

You responded:

""

As far as I can tell, My AC3P was damaged by the substandard RJ11 X10 cabling that I receieved from Marinedepot when I plugged it in the very first time.

I even complained when I ordered the second PL513 that the cable was improperly crimped ( or not at all ).

When I received the second PL513 module, the cable was exactly the same as the first one I received, it had not been crimped at all on one end.

This leaves the RJ11 conductors sticking out. If you were to plug this into a OEM device, technically ALL four of the conductors could be shorted together.


Since I cannot get the X10 to work at all, I must declare my Aquacontroller toast for the X10 interface ( everything else works fine ). Also based on the fact that I see zero voltage on the 1-2 pins of the AC3 with no PL513 plugged in.

I think we can chalk this one up to poor workmanship ( on the X10 Side ) taking out a perfectly good Aquacontroller.


Stu

 

[clp]

I just looked at the schematic and the sync signal is on pin 4 (right most pin on the control connector). The voltage between pins 1 & 2 should be zero volts as the AquaController is not transmitting any data. The connection cord is just like a standard telephone cord with 4 conductors. The connections cross-over - pin 1 to pin 4, pin 2 to pin 3, pin 3 to pin 2, and pin 4 to pin 1. I suspect that the cable you are using does not cross-over, and that is why it is not working. I doubt that the control port on the controller is broken, as that is a very rare occurance.

Curt

 

[stugray]

Curt,

Thanks again for the response!

I am positive that the cable sent to me with the PL513 was a 1 to 1 as I rang it out to make sure I had continuity all the way through.

As for the Pullup voltage on the ASC3Pro side. I edited the PL513 schematic below the way I Think it should be on your side:

Since the output to the AC3P from the PL513 is an open-collector Optocoupler, the AC3 couldnt "sense" the zero crossing pulse unless you have a BiLevel input with a pullup resistor & voltage.
That way when the Opto is conducting the input senses a low & when it's not conducting it senses it's own pullup voltage.

I'll try the crossover cable this evening.

Thanks again!

Sorry for being a little irritated last night. It wasnt just the AC3p ;-)

Stu

 

[stugray]

Well,

I tried the cable the way Curt suggested it, & I still get nothing.

A new AC3P is en-route from MD. As well as a DC8 module.

So for anyone who buys X-10 modules from MD..... be sure to check the cable carefully before using it.
Inspect both ends.
If the clip ( opposite side from the contacts ) is deformed, then the crimper was used upside down when crimping.

I am convinced that the uncrimped cable is what damaged the AC3P.

Stu

 

[stugray]

So the new unit arrived and everything worked perfectly out of the box ( using the cable that came with the DC8 ).

I tried the DC8 & the PL513 and everything worked on the new unit.

Tried the DC8 on the old unit and the X10 interface is still dead.



I think Curt should have a discussion with MD about the RJ11 cords shipped with the PL513.

In addition, Neptune Systems should ship their own RJ11 cable with the AC3 units & advise the customers to NOT use the cable supplied with the PL513.

Thanks for the help Curt!

Oh, and with the new pinouts supplied above, I do see the 5V pullup on pin 4 on both the new unit & the old, so it must be the "data envelope" transmitter on the old AC3 that is toast.

Stu