Brand New System, no Livestock, Now What? Check my parameters. Can I add Live Rock

[RussC]

I posted in the chemistry forum but response has been slow. Thought I'd try in this forum. Mcgyvr has been helping me, but I need some more input.

Just got my tank up and running. For some reason I thought, maybe because of something I read, it was a good idea to get the parameters of a new tank all balanced before adding anything like live rock.

My current parameters are ALK 12.04, CA 460, Mag is high at least to 1600, PH 7.73, Temp about 77-78. I'm still learning the Red Sea Foundation Pro test kit. Taking a little getting used to.

I have a Red Sea xl 425 tank, 88 gallon display with 24 gallon tank. With the 80 pounds o substrate and equipment I'm guessing around 90-100 gallons of volume. I mixed with Red Sea Coral Pro salt and am following Red Sea's suggestions for parameters on a mixed coral tank of ALK 11.5, Salinity 34, CA 450, MAG 1350, Temp 77-78.

I filled up my tank completely and ran RO/DI water in it for a couple days to work out all the kinks. Then mixed any salt directly in the tank. Now I'm going to remove what's necessary while I add rock.

1) With what I've got, can I go ahead and start adding live rock to kick off the cycle?
2) Once I add the live rock what, should I expect my numbers to do? I would suspect they would go crazy introducing life with waste, etc.
3) The ALK is higher than the recommended 11.5. Is 12.04 dangerous high or what?

I guess I was a little surprised and some of the suggestions that ALK should be 7-11 when Red Sea suggested 11.5. I was also a little surprised at the lower than expected PH. It was suggested Im moving too fast on the dosing. Gotta admit, that could easily be the case. The dosing part is new to me so I'm learning as we go.

Remember, there is no livestock/rock in the tank. The only thing I added was 80 pounds of substrate.

 

[mcgyvr]

1) yes what are you waiting for

2) you said "live rock" so I'm going to assume that means you actually purchased live rock and not dry rock.. I'm going to assume that live rock has been shipped to you from somewhere and kept "damp" as such there will be some die off.. As such I would expect ammonia levels to rise as that die off starts to decompose then nitrite levels should increase then nitrates should start to increase as both ammonia and nitrites start to go back to zero.. Once both ammonia and nitrites are zero the tank is cycled..

Now the second you got your tank filled with saltwater the tank is starting to cycle.. rock or not.. Even more so if that "substrate" was "live sand".. Depending on how long you have been monkeying around with parameters you shouldn't have your tank could have already cycled and you missed it..

Now depending on exactly what you mean by live rock you might not even have a cycle at all..

3)your alk is fine.. stop worrying about it..

You can start to worry about dosing once your current water change schedule is not enough to keep your alk/cal/mag levels stable enough (aka its being consumed faster than your water changes are replenishing it).. Thats it.. plain and simple..
For some people that can take a long time or never even happen as the water changes are enough and they don't have enough corals/coralline algae to consume it..

So now..questions for you
1)How long has the tank been filled already?
2)Did you purchase live sand?
3)What exactly do you mean by live rock? where did you get it? how is it getting to you?
4)Have you been monitoring for ammonia/nitrites/nitrates already?
5)Are you going to be able to handle not turning on those dosing pumps for a while?


One more thing.. red sea is a good company.. Some of their cycling and parameter information is a little quirky though.. They seem to think this is a perfect world and everything can be charted in a day by day way and that if you just follow their yellow brick road everything will be just fine.. And for the most part it is but I believe you need to use a little more brain power to understand what they are asking of you and be able to adjust based on exactly whats happening in your tank,etc..

 

[mcgyvr]

And one more thing.. Your salt and its freshly mixed alk/cal/mag levels..
They are elevated over whats commonly accepted normal parameters..
Thats fine..
Say your freshly mixed salt reads 12dKH.. Once your tank gets up and going and you start getting corals in their your alk level will drop some and you may decide you want to run it at 9.5 (random number for now).. During the week or period when you aren't changing your water your alk might drop to 9.0 dkh (that swing is just fine BTW) so now you do a water change with that 12dkh water.. Its going to rise your alk level right back up to maybe 9.5 again which is perfectly fine and is exactly why some mixes are higher than recommended levels..Now I wouldn't suggest changing large amounts of water with that as the higher alk will raise alk even more and then you are creating a larger swing.. But to use it for water changes of say 20% every 2 weeks its just fine and will just help bring whatever your alk level is right back up..

 

[RussC]

Now that is the guidance I'm needing! Thanks, Mc. You are right. I had it in my mind, for whatever reason, that it was important to get all my parameters in perfect check before moving forward. But that makes total sense about water being ready to go and not requiring dosing until I have enough in the tank that it consumes it faster than I can resupply it with regular water changes.

1) WHen I say live rock, yes, it will be purchased from the LFS. Its covered in coralline. Its the Real Brand of Live rock.
2) The tank has been full of salt water for about 3 or 4 days.
3) No live sand. Regular Caribsea Speacial Grade Sand from BRS.
4) I have not looked at Amonia, Nitrite or Nitrates. I planned to begin that immediately as soon as I introduced rock. I have the test, just didn't feel it necessary yet. Should I check it out? I was going to take a water sample by the LFS today anyway just to get a second set of eyes looking at the parameters.
5) My plan was to change 20 gallons every two weeks. So we seem to be on the same page.

Huge help. Thanks. I feel better and will move on the rock immediately.
5) Your last question is funny. Yes, I'll make it! I'm excited to have automated pumps. Back in 2005 I had to do all this by hand. It was a labor of love but it did get old. I love the automation advancements in this hobby. If only the APEx could compute all these water parameters for me!

 

[mcgyvr]

No problem..

Note: If you are going to fill that tank 100% with live rock straight from the LFS then you probably won't have a cycle at all provided you keep that rock submerged.
I'd bring a cooler or similar to keep it 100% in water then you should have little to no die off and provided that rock is already cycled (cured) in their vats then you shouldn't have one either..

Apex states they will have automated testing of alk/cal/mag solutions coming soon (don't hold your breath though as they seem to have a habit of being a ***** tease for quite a while)

 

[jda]

Get the rock, put it in.

Chill out for a few months. Don't test anything and don't add anything to the tank to try and combat any algae that comes up nor to supplement any macro or micro trace elements. Do your water change every month. Once you get some algae, get a single hardy fish if you want - Yellow Tail Blue Damsels are my favorite since they are hardy, colorful and peaceful when you get more fish.

Once your algae bloom goes away for a week or two, then check back in with Nitrate, Phosphate, SG, temp, alk and calcium. Throw your PH test kit away and don't ever look at it again unless you start playing with Kalkwasser or Muratic Acid (seriously, it can do more harm than good). You can ramp up SLOWLY with livestock once you get here. Your goal is a tank covered in coraline algae, pods and sponges on the back of rocks, but this can take up to a year.

Anything that you do before this timeframe will inhibit the tank from building oxic and anoxic bacteria colonies that are the base of your tanks'e existence. Even though the algae might go away and you might like a number on a test kit better, you will be hurting your tank.

Seriously. Just have somebody hide the test kits from you want wait. I know that it sucks, but everybody else with a successful tank looked at an ugly tank and waited for a few months too.

 

[LuizW13]

Man, that red sea alk test is a pain to get right