Breeding Challenge

[clownfish75]

HI all

I just read MWP's thread about tinkers bfly and yashi gobies.

with the number of people around the place all over the world with spare tanks to breed in, what do people think of the idea of a concerted effort to focus on one specific previously unbred species of fish.

I dont know about you but about the only fish there is heaps on is clownfish and seahorses.

even things such as orchids and royal grammas the info is few and far between (mostly on here) or fairly vague.

perhaps as a group globally we could pick a species and hone our knowledge base just on that fish?

what are peoples thoughts? what would be in our out?

I personally think
assessors, gobies, blennies, hawkfish

out would be seahorses, clownfish

Christian

 

[mwp]

Depends on the type of gobies....most of the cleaner style (Elactinus, Gobiosoma, Corypherus (spelling?) etc...those have been done. Firefish though...or maybe Stonogobiops...

Dottybacks & Grammas would be out as well...just ask Ed...

Heck, Centropyge have been done.

HAWKFISH - now there's one I'd like to see more of...

Yellow Tangs are bar-none the one that so many people want to get done, but so few aquarists actually have any hope of spawning (due to the average tank size).

I like the idea of making a "concerted effort". Luis and I both have Synchiropus going, albiet it seems neither of us are making progress lately. Many other folks have had spawnings, and at least one RC member has reared them.

Gotta go, RSB's are courtin' again...

Matt

 

[Fishboy42]

Ed needs to write the "Dottybacks" book for us My female sunrise finally died of old age (7+ years), before I ever figured out how to raise her babies past meta; got close a couple of times, but never there My friend's P. fridmani pair was taken by a mantis shrimp after only a few concerted efforts to raise their fry...

I agree with Matt; tangs, angels, some gobies, and dottys are out, but firefish, blennies, hawks--it would be interesting to know more about the captive propogation of those. Some cardinals and jawfish might be interesting as well. Agreeing on a "focus species" first is going to be the hardest part

Matt

 

[xfury]

Just wondering if you could elaborate on the reasons that people can't breed those species. I understand that some of it is caused by the prolonged planktonic stage but I really havn't researched the matter a whole lot and I am interested in learning more. Plus I like a challenge.

Josh

 

[Fishboy42]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8932774#post8932774 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xfury
Just wondering if you could elaborate on the reasons that people can't breed yellow tangs.

The broodstock tanks have to be fairly large (impractical for many of us if we are to have a concerted effort, an idea I do like). The first foods and long larval duration also make this species difficult for captive rearing. If they can't do it easily in HI, we are probably going to have heaps of trouble

 

[mwp]

Blennies - someone cracked them (Proaquatix) with the Goldentail Blenny..not an "Ecsenius" but not too far off either. I personally had E. graveri spawn twice before parting with the pair - Iris has Tailspot Blennies spawning as well.

Cardinalfish - ORA has cracked them, I came real close on Apogon leptacanthus (45 days...haven't tried again yet).

There are TONS of fish that breed, and I personally think there are two main obstacles that prevent us from knowing more.

1. Marine fish are commonly sold singly. How many times do your read things like "keep one only per tank"? People have to buy their fish in pairs or groups if we're going to learn more about their spawning behaviors. VENDORS are going to have to be more willing to help people OBTAIN pairs (i.e. I'm still beyond disturbed that a vendor like the Drs. WON'T sell me a "male" red scooter blenny even though it is BEYOND easy to sex this species).

2. The other big problem with spawning is that a lot of it goes unnoticed, in the rockwork or under the cover of darkness. To this day I have no clue if my Firefish pair ever spawned...to really know for sure I would've had to give them a dedicated tank where EVERYTHING was easily observeable vs. just throwing them into a reef. I know I miss out on spawns of my Rusty Gobies as the only times I've found their babies is while collecting Mandarin eggs. The solution is two-fold - more people need to dedicate their efforts to actually setting up for marine breeding, and more people need to spend more time looking at their tanks (I'm lucky, working from home 4 days out of the 7 day week, that's just over 50% of the time that I spend with 2 of my four tanks literally right next to me...and I STILL miss things like hatches and spawnings!)

FWIW,

Matt

 

[clownfish75]

well it is good to see some imput.

I wasnt so much looking for things that have or havent been done, i more ment a concerted effort to improve the knowledge base, even for a species that is done.

for example, a project could be decided on given a 1-2 year duration, be given good exposure on many global web sites, like here, australia, asia, germany, england, even people in china, south africa, france etc must have sites i dont know of. If you have someone keen in all forums then perhaps 2 species are selected, one being something border line doable but still considered difficult (orchid dottybacks, people have done it but few have done it well), and perhaps one that there is almost nothign on like fire/decora/helfrichs dartfish, or perhaps flame or longnose hawkfish.

I think it is a little ahead of the game to say angels, butterflys or tangs, they are just to far out there, but there are heaps of things, even the humble bicolour blenny could be good.

If for example fire dartfish were chosen then info pre spawning such as pairing, social structures, space to house etc could be very valuable, all of which barely exsists, and with many people doing the same fish the information would have to expand quickly.

a couple of things though i think picking a species that is to come by in the world is smart, in oz neon gobies, jawfish and many shrimp gobies are out (all illegal imports), i dont know what the rules are but i thought germany had some strange rules on imports too.

keep the surgestions coming guys.

Christian

 

[keefsama2003]

Ok so if i have a fairly empty 300 gal tank what can i put in there to hope of a spawn the tank is open not full of live rock and i have my clowns but may be willing to try something different as i also have access to a 500 gal tank

 

[aomont]

Has anyone done wrasses ? I´ve read a paper talking about spawning and hatching hogfishes (B. pulchelus). Their eggs were larger then small angels and plenty.

Anderson.

 

[mwp]

Wrasses would be another great one to try.

Matt

 

[David M]

I think the species has to be one that has been bred in captivity before even if only at a unversity or research level, I for one am not willing to dedicate time and space to "tilting at windmills". Also I think it has to be marketable and at a price point where it's potentially profitable. IOW not chromis or domino damsels.

Interesting concern about the availability issue, I would not have thought of that. Blue spotted jawfish would have been high on my suggestion list but if people can't get them they're out.

Basslets? Good reef fish, should sell well and most are priced on the higher side of what is commonly considered "affordable". Except for G. loreto/ brasilensis , those are $3 fish. Maybe black caps? Been done at C-Quest years ago.

I also think if you are gonna ask dozens or scores of people to participate you can't ask too much, nothing that requires more than a 20 gallon tank or so.

Wrasses are interesting too but is there any info or precident?

Anyway you guys figure out the species and I'll participate.

 

[mwp]

Blue Dotted Jaws are already on my "to-do" list but the big problem is finding someone willing to go through a bunch to try to sex them / form pairs etc.

Matt

 

[aomont]

There´s a book on wrasse biology and its use in aquaculture(Wrasse: Biology and Use in Aquaculture) but, as I read in the table of contents, there´s no chapter on breeding...

Anderson.

 

[David Thomson]

I would be in for grama's, jawfish, or goby's (firefish). Just got my yellow watchmans spawing, but hey there is always room for more right?

I think grama's or goby's would meet everyones tank size abilities a little better.

DT

 

[mwp]

If I had to pick only one, I'd say blue dots have the best possibility for being commercially rewarding.

Matt

 

[aomont]

Do blue dots sell that fast or it´s the price factor ?

Anderson.

 

[David M]

the big problem is finding someone willing to go through a bunch to try to sex them / form pairs etc.

Uhh... that's pretty much your job if you want to breed them Can you even imagine the price if someone did this for you? They are plentiful in LA right now, ~$50 each at wholesale. I am going up there tomorrow, how many you want?

Do blue dots sell that fast or it´s the price factor ?

Even at $100- $150 retail I have never seen one sit in a store for very long and considering eveyone knows they have a low survivabilty rate that is really saying something. Captive bred ( eating and healthy) you could probably set your price, just figure out the demand curve to maximize sales/ profit.

Actually they may not be all that hard to sex if you have enough of them. A while back someone here (or maybe another site, damn CRS) posted some drawings that showed some things to look for. Supposedly the males head tends to be more "square" but the big difference is the jaw opening, it stops at or before the eye on females but runs well past it in males. Two weeks ago I looked at about 50 in LA and could clearly see these differences in many of them. Still, I don't know how much individual variation could accout for this, and I certainly didn't have an extra few hundred $ to experiment with.

 

[ediaz]

Who has them so low David?, thats pretty low...

they sell here for 69 wholesale and 198 retail, like you said they only spend a day or two at the store.


Thats a very good choice to breed, they must be as easy as the yellow head and that would give you the opportunity to sell them for less than WC, if you try to compete with WC price you will sell less fish, keep in mind stores only stock one or two, if you sell them for less you will move more making it profitable, I'll sell them for 30 each if I was breeding them.

Ed

 

[Matthew37]

Has anyone thought about breeding flasher wrasses?

There small fish that don't need a large tank and they can be kept in small groups.
And they seem to be pretty hardy.

 

[mwp]

Actually David, I posted the drawings

My LFS's never have more than ONE at a time. I don't have the SPACE to sex them here either without throwing 2 into tanks and 2 into breeder nets. I've provided ALL the sexing data to a variety of retailers, even willing to accept "best guesses" and yet NO ONE is willing to earn my Blue Dot Business!

David, I'll definitely take a pair (bye bye "pearl") - seriously, shoot me a PM if you can help out.

Matt