Breeding My Onyx Clowns Again

[JJ Ocean]

Since the hobby didn't take up enough time already, I decided to start rearing my black onyx again. I've got some growing out at 27 days old now and the pair just laid another patch of eggs at 7pm tonight. A couple pics below ... (not the best quality camera)

Parents - WC; had them both about 7 years. Female's top dorsal is a little darker now. For some reason she's boycotting my 3 RBTAs during the day for my frogspawn, but still sleeps in the main RBTA at night with the male. I'm just praying she doesn't go near my yellow flower pot!
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/hVmfVYKNEDQ1JVUzqqCAXw?authkey=Gv1sRgCOLO2vSih4rliwE&feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_7U3dRaom6no/S7QcBFhF6yI/AAAAAAAAAKw/NoCfXYUndPY/s800/JJs%20Onyx%20Clowns%20Pair.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jjadamson/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCOLO2vSih4rliwE&feat=embedwebsite">Drop Box</a></td></tr></table>

Shot of male
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Some current juvi's at 25 days
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29G growout, 20G growout & 10G larvae tanks on the right. Display's 180G sump/refugium in background
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All the food ... 7 greenwater bottles, 2 buckets of roti & 3 brine hatchers
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We'll see how long I go at it this time!

-John

 

[iziko]

very nice!!
PLZ keep update!

 

[WDLV]

Yes. Updates are good. Also a rundown of your feeding products and schedule, lighting schedule, parameters (particularly temp) and anything else you think might be useful. I'm trying to get one of my "special" pairs to spawn. They are not yet doing so but I keep catching them doing some lazy cleaning.

 

[JJ Ocean]

I'll post updates over time.

As for a rundown, main tank where the pair is:

Equipment: 120G (4x2x2) display, 180G sump 50%/refugium 50%, Iwaki100 return (16ft head), Aqua C 180 skimmer powered by Iwaki40 injecting ozone, UV, Calcium reactor & intermittent charcoal in fluidized bed (add more on this item below). 180lb live rock in display & 60lb live rock in sump with cheto/caluerpa mix.

Food: PE Mysis every other day is the one constant. In addition, a 5 day rotation of formula1, formula2, carnivore mix (brine/mussles/clam/fish), pellets (multi-purpose saltwater) & flake (multi-purpose saltwater). Soak in vitachem when I have the time "“ comes out to probably every 5th day. Twice a week I also do Nori & twice a week I also drop large amounts of 48 hour baby brine shrimp (nori and artemia never on same day though). I've never seen the clowns eat the nori or baby brine though; it is mainly for the tangs/angels (nori) and corals (artemia). Female onyx has a special affinity for the mysis "“ only food item she tried to "œbeat out" other tank mates for.

Feeding Schedule: once a day at 8pm

Lighting schedule on timer: 4x65w actinic PC come on at 11am and off at 11pm; 4x65w 10K PC come on at 12pm and off at 10pm

Parms: 78 temp; ph 8.25, salinity 1.025, ammonia 0ppm, nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 5-10ppm, calcium ~380, dkh 10-11, mag "“ hadn't checked in a year, phos "“ hadn't checked in a year, water changes 15-20% every 2 weeks with RO/DI source water. I do a buffer slurry mix directly into my sump if my ph every gets below 8.2 as well.

Supplements: dose every 2 weeks with Mag, essential elements, Iodine (1.5x recommended dosage), Stronium (sp?) and buffered/aerated top-off water

What I think helped outside of trying to keep a consistent schedule:

1. No "œbusy" tank mates; I had 6 blue green chromis who seemed to bug them by zipping and flashing around the tank. Inconsistent egg production with them in there; improved when they were removed. Lyretail anthias is the "œbusiest" tank mate now, but doesn't really go by the clowns' area. The chromis did.
2. No overly dominant tank mate. Imperator angel bothered them. Inconsistent egg production with him in there; improved when removed. Most dominant tank mates are desjardini tang and flame angel now. The big difference is that the clowns couldn't keep the imperator out of their anemone spot if he wanted to browse their live rock "“ he ignored their aggression. They can keep/push the tang and flame angel out of their personal space.
3. I was doing my supplements somewhat inconsistently anywhere from 2-6 weeks apart. When I got consistent at 2 weeks, egg production improved (time between laying decreased).
4. Running charcoal in fludized bed for a duration of 5 days once a month. Egg production improved (time between laying decreased). I implemented this with the supplement change, so hard to say which one improved the situation (maybe both).

One thing I am still trying to improve is the egg frequency. In nature, these clows lay eggs like clockwork twice a month. Mine lay every 3-4 weeks; lacking that consistency. Obviously, I am still missing some of their requirements.

I hope that helps. If you have any questions I left out "“ just let me know.

-John

 

[WDLV]

That's great. Thanks for taking the time to do that. What's with people only running activated carbon for short durations each month. I've always run it for a month or so before replacing it with more. Is it a matter of concern over it releasing absorbed contaminants or is it more efficient somehow?

Aside from the tiny details, I think the major thing you're doing differently with yours is chemical consistancy. I have never really been into testing parameters other than SG and using a pH meter (which has been broken for some time.) I think my previous system was stable but this is only four months old and is having typical new tank problems. That said I don't want to derail. So, thanks for the rundown.

 

[JJ Ocean]

Regarding my use of activated carbon for just a couple days, I’ve heard of the contaminant theory. However, my personal reason is just ease of use and no noticeable difference when running a full month. My fluidized filter is virtually spotless after running only 5 days and taking it out. I run it a month and it gets a dirty where I have to clean it up a lot. I experimented running it a full month, but the water clarity and parms were the same as my 5 day regime – so I go the easier route. Someone also once told me that the active carbon effectiveness diminishes significantly after a few days in a marine environment. Don’t know if it is true, but my experience seems aligned to that statement.

Yes, chemical consistency I think is key to breeding clowns. If I wanted to take it to the next level, I’d keep them in a species specific tank. I know the clown pair is enduring some level of chemical warfare between my mix of corals & anemones. That’s the main reason I started using the activated carbon. However, I’m not willing to remove the coral or setup a new tank for them. However, if I ever find an active source for some chrysogasters, I will setup a species specific tank for them (I think I talked with you on another forum regarding the gasters - thanks).

BTW – I don’t check most of my parms that often either. I mainly monitor salinity to adjust my water changes to keep at 1.025, PH on my meter & ORP on my meter. I left ORP off the earlier post, but it generally runs 385-395. If any of those are off or my livestock looks visually off, then I go and check the other parms. My tank is kind of dialed in being setp for about 10 years with automated top-off, ozone and calc reactor, so as long as the occasional pet sitter doesn’t over feed – I’m generally OK.

-John

 

[WDLV]

Regarding my use of activated carbon for just a couple days, I've heard of the contaminant theory. However, my personal reason is just ease of use and no noticeable difference when running a full month. My fluidized filter is virtually spotless after running only 5 days and taking it out. I run it a month and it gets a dirty where I have to clean it up a lot. I experimented running it a full month, but the water clarity and parms were the same as my 5 day regime "“ so I go the easier route. Someone also once told me that the active carbon effectiveness diminishes significantly after a few days in a marine environment. Don't know if it is true, but my experience seems aligned to that statement.

Yes, chemical consistency I think is key to breeding clowns. If I wanted to take it to the next level, I'd keep them in a species specific tank. I know the clown pair is enduring some level of chemical warfare between my mix of corals & anemones. That's the main reason I started using the activated carbon. However, I'm not willing to remove the coral or setup a new tank for them. However, if I ever find an active source for some chrysogasters, I will setup a species specific tank for them (I think I talked with you on another forum regarding the gasters - thanks).

BTW "“ I don't check most of my parms that often either. I mainly monitor salinity to adjust my water changes to keep at 1.025, PH on my meter & ORP on my meter. I left ORP off the earlier post, but it generally runs 385-395. If any of those are off or my livestock looks visually off, then I go and check the other parms. My tank is kind of dialed in being setp for about 10 years with automated top-off, ozone and calc reactor, so as long as the occasional pet sitter doesn't over feed "“ I'm generally OK.

-John

That 10 year old tank was an important note. That goes a long way toward stability.

Would you care to share any FTS of that 120?

 

[JJ Ocean]

Here's a couple FTS's ...

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Wx6B0r8ZMLyjDENaFYtNFg?authkey=Gv1sRgCOLO2vSih4rliwE&feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_7U3dRaom6no/S7U-EX6U-yI/AAAAAAAAAM0/i53p33Qgb9w/s800/Oynx%20Clowns%2020100401%20front.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jjadamson/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCOLO2vSih4rliwE&feat=embedwebsite">Drop Box</a></td></tr></table>

Right side - you can actually see the orange tint of the egg mass under the male in this pic
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Left side
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It has been setup 10 years, but it did go through a 25 mile move 5 years ago. I think the move actually helped - kept 50% of the water, the live rock was all taken out, lightly rinsed in SW, submerged in sterile 45G cans for the move and restacked a couple hours later in filled aquarium. Cleared out 5 years of built up sediment - never drained the bottom 6 inches or kept the SW rinse water.

However, I think the biggest part that helps me with chemical stability is that it is a moderately stocked 120 display, but I'm carrying the water volume and live rock of a 300G aquarium due to the 180G sump/refugium. 90G of that is a refugium running PC lights 24x7. I had the space, so I had the 180G build. The 120 display tank is in my home office on the main floor and the sump is a floor below in my mechanical room.

My ultimate plan is to setup a 93G cube clown species tank w/ MH in the living room next to my office and plumb it down to the same sump. It is spec'd to easily handle another 90 ... all I need to buy is another iwaki return pump and I'm in business. I just need to get the wife bought in on the plan!

-John

 

[PayasoDelMar]

Sweet run down and set up.

Good luck with your cube build

 

[TenKreefer]

baby clowns are the coolest thing ever. Sweet setup

 

[WDLV]

Thanks again!

 

[ThunderTang]

Good Luck with your clown breeding.

 

[JJ Ocean]

Thanks for the feedback - no problem.

I wanted to share something I learned with this hatch. Maybe it is old news for other breeders, but I've never done this before. I've always had a couple stragling larvae never metamorphisize with the rest. Like this time, all of them transformed between days 10-12. 3 larvae didn't and were still larvae at day 23 ... 11-13 days behind all the others (twice as long). Anyway, I've normally always kept feeding rotifers with the brine until all the larvae meta'd, but most of the straggling larvae rarely made it to meta even when keeping the rotis going.

Anway, my speculation was that these larvae weren't making the switch to brine (silver stomach vs. orange/pink) and that the the rotis didn't have enough nutrients to carry them through meta. This time I got tired of the dual regime at day 23, did a water change clearing out most of the roti's and just fed brine. 2 days later all 3 successfully meta'd. I never had that success rate on late meta's before; best was always like 25% and the late ones never all meta'd together. Theory on that is they were forced to switch with no food alternative and keeping them on rotis just got them by where they were weak and susceptable to disease/injury. Just my theory. I'll repeat this on my next hatch that is coming, but probably on day 16. I'll see if I get similar results.

-John

 

[natep206]

Very informative John, I really appriciate it. Do you have pictures of your babies? ill be subscribing to this thread...

 

[loglew]

I find this all really interesting although I guess I must have got really lucky with my clowns. My tank has only been set up for 10 months. My clowns started laying about the first of this year and have done so every 13 days like clockwork, always staring between 6:30 and 7:00 at night). Every clutch seems to get bigger and better. The only thing that has changed since they stated is they moved spots once. I've never tried to raise any of the fry but threads like this and a good set of spawning clowns has me really starting to wonder. My tank is a 150 gal DT with a 20 gal sump

 

[JJ Ocean]

I ended up moving them out of my 29G grow out tank and into my 90G refugium yesterday. I placed them in an acrylic breeder box I made though ... way too much room in my fuge for their age right now; not to mention the unknown critters lurking in there after living large with no real predators for years. I've got a couple copepods in there I could put on the grill like shrimp they are so big. I had to move them because I hade an ammonia spike in my grow out.

After the ammonia spike this week, I need to upgrade my grow out to a mix circulated system with a skimmer injecting ozone. The sponge filter and air stone are just too unreliable.

I'll be scooping larvae again tomorrow night - everybody is all silver eyed tonight!

Very informative John, I really appriciate it. Do you have pictures of your babies? ill be subscribing to this thread...

There's 1 pic above, but here's one from tonight. I dropped my BTA that was in the fuge in their box last night - they are already hosting it.

Loglew - 10 months and already laying eggs at 2 week intervals is great! They must be very comfortable in your tank.

-John

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

Awesome! Love the little clown pictures! I have a pair of Onyx. The female looks like your average onyx, but the little dude is completely black except for all of his fins which are orange, and of course the white stripes.

I have 2 WC Black Ocellaris, which I bought 18 months ago. They have been bonded for two years (6 months in LFS, 18 months with me). Never fought much, but last year the female started to get larger. The male is probably a bit less than 2" and the female is roughly 2.75"-3.25". I have a flower pot next to their anemones which they are comfortable with. How long did it take for your pair to start breeding? How big were yours when you got them? Any other info you think I may be interested in would be great. Thanks!

 

[loglew]

Thanks, they are a great pair, you really have me thinking about trying to raise some, it looks like a really challenging/rewarding adventure. Here is a quick video of them at work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQPR5jPMZW0

 

[clowns101]

Awesome! Love the little clown pictures! I have a pair of Onyx. The female looks like your average onyx, but the little dude is completely black except for all of his fins which are orange, and of course the white stripes.

I have 2 WC Black Ocellaris, which I bought 18 months ago. They have been bonded for two years (6 months in LFS, 18 months with me). Never fought much, but last year the female started to get larger. The male is probably a bit less than 2" and the female is roughly 2.75"-3.25". I have a flower pot next to their anemones which they are comfortable with. How long did it take for your pair to start breeding? How big were yours when you got them? Any other info you think I may be interested in would be great. Thanks!

You have WC Black Ocellaris:rolleye1:?

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

Yes... is something... wrong... with that?