Breeding questions? Attention here!

[socalnative]

First I have noticed with my perc's that after hatching they are all at the bottom (broodstock tank) even with a light placed at the top in hopes to raise the larval for easy collection.

Second: Even with very low light I am noticing my larval pointing straight down for the first few days once in the 10g tank. Its only for the first few days before they begin to raise and swim about.

Third: Is anyone trying larger than 10g tanks for larval through the first 30 days or so?

Fourth: Is there anyone using some sort of biological filtration other than changing water frequently. I was thinking of setting up some sort of filtration system with my 10g larval tanks setup in a row. (something were the overflow is only a drip into a container w/ a recirculating bio tower with a small aqualifter pump adding a few drops per second to the larval tanks)

Fifth: How often is everyone changing their water on the larval tanks and what %. I have been doing 30-50% fairly frequently.

Sixth: I cant seem to get my percs past day 3!

 

[billsreef]

Do you have other lights on in the room? What sort of light are you using when trying to get them to rise to the top for collecting? I turn all the lights out in the room and use a flashlight place over one corner of the tank. Being the only light source, they typically swim right up to it.

With your rearing tank, trying blacking out the bottom and sides

For spawn of one clutch, I wouldn't suggest using bigger than a 10 gallon. It will be harder to maintian sufficient food densities in a larger tank.

Again with filtration, you don't a filter sucking up the food, so regular daily siphoning and water changes are best.

I like to do roughly 50% water changes daily. Depending on densities, use of green water, food types, you might be able do less.

On that last point, what are feeding them?

 

[Fishwhisperer]

If you black out the sides as mentioned and use a small t5 power compact it is possible to densely concentrate both larvae and food in the centre surface of the rearing tank. a standard airstone in all four corners of the rearing tank bubbling gently and a drip rate centralised system is the most effective route for water purification but daily water changes from the parent tank are another option if you dont have the facilities to centralise the tank to a system. rotifers are a must and must be enriched with a suitable algae, instant algae produce a very effective concentrate of several algaes perfect for rotifer enrichment, the initial outlay is expensive but its very economical long term!!! Also never syphon them when collecting use a plastic water cup or similar!!! they should if healthy swim up towards a light source if the rest of the room is dark. You can miss out artemia (and its associated problems of Amyloodinium and Vibrio and move near enough straight onto dry foods with a bit of experimentation. it may tak a few batches until you get used to this though as it can be a bit hit and miss!!! if you dont want to risk it use artemia but rinse it in tapwater first.

If your clowns eggs are not layed in a tight ball they are of poor quality and are a waste of time, it may be this also contributing to your early losses, unfortunately once they start like this they rarely sort themselves out and the parents are best condemmed to a display tank.

HTH

Tom

 

[Atticus]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10159910#post10159910 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fishwhisperer
If you black out the sides as mentioned and use a small t5 power compact it is possible to densely concentrate both larvae and food in the centre surface of the rearing tank. a standard airstone in all four corners of the rearing tank bubbling gently and a drip rate centralised system is the most effective route for water purification but daily water changes from the parent tank are another option if you dont have the facilities to centralise the tank to a system. rotifers are a must and must be enriched with a suitable algae, instant algae produce a very effective concentrate of several algaes perfect for rotifer enrichment, the initial outlay is expensive but its very economical long term!!! Also never syphon them when collecting use a plastic water cup or similar!!! they should if healthy swim up towards a light source if the rest of the room is dark. You can miss out artemia (and its associated problems of Amyloodinium and Vibrio and move near enough straight onto dry foods with a bit of experimentation. it may tak a few batches until you get used to this though as it can be a bit hit and miss!!! if you dont want to risk it use artemia but rinse it in tapwater first.

If your clowns eggs are not layed in a tight ball they are of poor quality and are a waste of time, it may be this also contributing to your early losses, unfortunately once they start like this they rarely sort themselves out and the parents are best condemmed to a display tank.

HTH

Tom

Hmmm... Please do not take offense to this, but I am going to post some very different opinions, from my personal experiances.

Sides do not need to be blacked out. Throw a piece of white paper under the tank for easy detrius removal and add a small amount of LIVE phyto to the tank to tint the water/ diffuse the light. I found you can actually use fairly strong lighting with this method as the white paper also reflects light, thus pushing the fry off the floor.

Airstones in the corner are a great idea. Make sure to keep the flow rate VERY LOW.

A few of us old salts use sponge filters in fresh fry tanks. They too are only turned up enough as to not affect the fry when they pass it. If it draws the close or labors their swimming turn it down. Even a seeded sponge that is turned off offers a decent filtering benefit.

Instant algae is a great rotifer food and highly suggested as it can be always available and never crashes. Do not use it to tint water or feed rotifers in the fry tank as it will foul the water quickly.

I have skipped rotifers with ocellaris and skipped fresh brine and went straight to frozen baby brine or cyclopeeze, but there is always a draw back to skipping anything. Your most healthy fry and best survival rate will come from following the proper nutrtional steps. Proper collection and rinsing techniques will help you avoid any of the pitfalls associated with live rots or brine.

Fry collecting is easier if you make the whole room dark including a lighted heater. They can be siphoned if you use a large diameter hose and make sure the fry tank end of the hose is submersed and away from the walls. Try to keep the drop of the hose as minimal as possible also as this lowers the velocity and damaging power of siphoning. I actually had a much higher collection percentage, lower amount of time spent, and better survivability with siphoning. Bowls and cups seemed more stressful and damaging in my case.

Fry should be switched to aged sw as soon as possible. Most parent tanks contain a high waste content due to high feed load. Higher quality growout water has been linked to better coloration, better marking, faster growth, and less deformation in my hatchery.

As for the last comment about a pair being doomed for display life, that is total crap.... No other way to put it. New parents or unhealthy parents can get a few nests wrong and parents fed a sub par diet will get weak nests. I have never seen a laying pair that has been properly treated and cared for not produce quality nests. If you are seeing light colored eggs, small nests, loose eggs, encapsulated fry, weak fry, high mortality 24 hours post collection, small yolk sacs, ect.... Look to the female's tank conditions first, then look to her nutrition, look for parasitic infection, or any other environmental cause. Something as small as a powerhead pointing at the substrate they have chosen can have an effect.

 

[Fishwhisperer]

I forgot to mention the last point is related to captive bred clowns I'll agree i've never seen persistant bad batches from properly treated wild specimens !!!

Tom

 

[Atticus]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10162735#post10162735 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fishwhisperer
I forgot to mention the last point is related to captive bred clowns I'll agree i've never seen persistant bad batches from properly treated wild specimens !!!

Tom

There has been no proof that there is any difference between wild caught and captive bred specimen. Many breeders choose wild caught only to have a completely clean bloodline, funny thing is most wild clowns move into neighboring anemones and inbreeding is very possible and commonly occuring in the wild.

The stories that captive bred clowns are inferior in any way are unfounded wives tales at best. I would be willing to take any pair that has laid a single nest and I know I could make them into a strong pair. An example of this was my shorty ocellaris pair. They were 3rd generation captive bred. As for natural body structure they could have been classed as deformed, they still gave strong nests, just as strong as their wild caught cousins.

On the other hand I had a wild caught pair of maroons that always gave small nests and weakly attatched eggs. The eggs were pale and would fall off the substrate, leaving the fry encapulated. The female was 5inches long and ate like a horse. After trying everything I found that she had internal parasites resulting in a nutritional deficency. Post medication she threw the biggest, healthiest nests I have seen to date. She was a great example of the trouble wild caught clowns can have that captive bred would not, but she too is an awesome example of a clown others would have put in a display or marked up as too old for broodstock. She just needed to be properly assessed and taken care of.

There is no such thing as inferior captive raised fish, just inferior fish breeding practices.

 

[Fishwhisperer]

I did reply but dunno where its gone

I'll try the parasite route with my dodgy pair cos they are recieving one ace diet

Cheers for incite, i hope it works cos as TBs go these are ace lookers!!!!

one thing I will say is that TBs turning up in the British Isles are far less hardy than they used to be perhaps inbreeding has gone too far with some of these lines!!!!

Tom

 

[socalnative]

First of all, thanks to all for the replies.
I am using L strain rotifers as first feed for the clown larvae and i feed nano from reed mariculture to the rotifers and also to the 10gallon larval tank to keep the rotifers in the tank always nutritional. (At least that's what i aim to do, should i not add "greenwater" to the larval tank? Although i do notice the larvae goes away from the walls when i add it.) I have tried a wide variety of lights with different results with different strains (tomato, gsm, percula, and clarki). I plan on doing a log on it all but i am slammed with baby clownfish right now . I am using papertowels on the bottom for white reflection with the sides blacked out and heater light taped up with electrical tape. Although my last clarki batch recently i didn't black anything out and i had the best survival yet. (maybe i am getting better at this)
I only have 2 lines going into the tank and bubbling, should i add more?
I have been using instant ocean salt for water changes from day one because i tend to feed the parents heavily. I haven't tried using parent tank water yet but plan on splitting the next Percula batch up into 2 tanks and try both new salt aerated overnight and parent tank water.
This is gonna be the percs 4th batch that i have noticed and logged in the last 2 months and the mass of eggs has definately gotten better with each batch.
On a side note-
I also have neon gobies spawning and have s strain ready to go with the hatch coming up in a day or 2. It seems to be the same as clownfish except longer stages at s-strain, l-strain, then bbs, it seems like. Anyone who has any experience please lmk.
3rd batch i notice and log.
1st batch i accidenatlly made spawn when i moved the tile and smushed a few eggs as i was trying to figure out why they kept going back behind the tile. I found eggs . I place as many as i could catch in a small goldfish bowl thing with an airstone and L-strain rotifers to where they lived to 4 days until i accidentally killed them by somehow disconnecting the air pump :mad2: . I am so ready for this next batch tho. Any advice would be great.