Brs video on black box

Wow, thank you for some understanding.

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I believe they do it is because starting a reef tank is expensive and confusing to average new reefer, I personally have given thousands of dollars to new hobbyist to get them started , the bb is the industry standard for new hobbyist, how can you really expect a guy trying to explain to his wife , he needs to spend 800 for a light, just saying, a , $100.00 puts that man into the hobby, I believe we're not looking at this correctly, all the older reefers say no from there life of experience, you scare the new away with that narrowly minded mindsets..

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I believe they do it is because starting a reef tank is expensive and confusing to average nee reefers, I personally have given thousands of dollars to new hobbies to get them started, the bb is the industry standard for new hobbyist, how can you really expect a guy trying to explain to his wife , he needs to spend 800 for a light, just saying, a , 100.00 puts that man into the hobby, I believe we're not looking at this correctly, all the older reefers say no from there life of experience, you scare the new away with that narrowly minded mindsets..

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Some one said that the bb is nothing more than a license plate worth of aluminum, you sir are correct, with out getting into watts per sq. , easy quick math puts these fixtures within there duty cycles, "I can explain if im foced to" vrs life expectancy , I will say again , all leds have a life expectancy, just because you pick the best out of the bin , that don't change that buy much..talking all that in mind you will still have to upgrade your leds, w all the lightning manufacturers..every 3 or 4 yarars , where is the cost analysis on that , I've seen replacement pucks for older radions on ebay, same, same, China stuff..I can build a duplicate from the China parts...actually better..duplicate..

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Man this guy is just trying to prove his black box lights are as good as the name brand lights. There is no convincing him other wise, no point in arguing the point. The majority of the post have explained he was wrong, but it's like arguing with a wall. Everyone knows you can build your own lights that do what kessil, AI, and radion do, but their controllers and quality is better. He seems to think he is a better engineer but you can't argue with crazy! The majority of us know what the better option is man!


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Read my post ,refers to that mindset..

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I totally get that!!! And that's ok I mean saying a black box will do the job is ok but to say they are better than name brand is a claim that no one has really tested.. hrs has a video about the a360w and they work will and at 350-400 they aren't a bad buy for someone who wants a plug and play experience. I totally get that a black box or DIY work for some people but you can't say they are a better overall lighting system.


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Ok lets say for argument sakes ,the one on one comparison that brs did against the bb, the bb was higher par, had better pur over test, the biggest deal was there so called laser beam, I found this my self while messing w them, being in sandblastng business I knew what the effects what a diffuser has, to be honest I onle tried one size abrasive , the type and size of medai determins the effect from diffuser..like im saying w diffuser, its a light fixture you have not seen, if you own one try it out..it spreads the pur and par, very smooth and uniform , kinda like t5s im trying different tricks in diffuser , I will post results , it takes time getting good data from par meter..

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Ok lets say for argument sakes ,the one on one comparison that brs did against the bb, the bb was higher par, had better pur over test, the biggest deal was there so called laser beam, I found this my self while messing w them, being in sandblastng business I knew what the effects what a diffuser has, to be honest I onle tried one size abrasive , the type and size of medai determins the effect from diffuser..like im saying w diffuser, its a light fixture you have not seen, if you own one try it out..it spreads the pur and par, very smooth and uniform , kinda like t5s im trying different tricks in diffuser , I will post results , it takes time getting good data from par meter..

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One thing that helps the bb is there powerful, when you add a diffuser you kill the par but pur rises, why you ask, the blues are most dominant, the whites get diffused further and spead, the newest bb have there own diffusers on the diodes , so it's a great mix,,I've found drilling out the desired diodes you can really Taylor the effects your after..

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I don't understand why we aren't taking other lighting options into play? Like the a360w they are no where near that price, and extremely close to what a DIY option would be. Especially when you add in warranty and controllability ya know. I get it that black box's and DIY options can work, but you can't say they are a better overall unit then some of the name brand stuff.


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I suppose were not taking about those is the results o side buy side comparison is not in ther best interest..

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I haven't checked to see if BRS has done any tests on those. I'm sort of wondering if they picked the Radions because the others were too close for comfort. I also wonder if they picked the worst performing black box on. How can a new reefer learn the how's with out a little loss, I mean I go to local petco, try and convince new hobbyist, there scared of long term investment, when I watched the brs video I was shocked on the political stance they represented , maybe it was bad idea on there behalf , to make a comparison ThAt might drive new consumers away, I don't believe that was there point, saying that im still trying to understand what they was trying to do..I like brs , I believe brs is one of the best things that happened to the reefing industry , the things they done, the videos they made, all awesome and thanks...it makes it easy for me to introduce a new reefer and say wAtch all there video's and you should be there, they did a great job on all those aspects, the video's on the chetto fuge and lightning, great stuff. Whu the bb? Get some publicity? all publicity , even bad publicity , is good publicity..marketing 101..I smell a new light coming out...

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I haven't checked to see if BRS has done any tests on those. I'm sort of wondering if they picked the Radions because the others were too close for comfort. I also wonder if they picked the worst performing black box on. How can a new reefer learn the how's with out a little loss, I mean I go to local petco, try and convince new hobbyist, there scared of long term investment, when I watched the brs video I was shocked on the political stance they represented , maybe it was bad idea on there behalf , to make a comparison ThAt might drive new consumers away, I don't believe that was there point, saying that im still trying to understand what they was trying to do..I like brs , I believe brs is one of the best things that happened to the reefing industry , the things they done, the videos they made, all awesome and thanks...it makes it easy for me to introduce a new reefer and say wAtch all there video's and you should be there, they did a great job on all those aspects, the video's on the chetto fuge and lightning, great stuff. Whu the bb? Get some publicity? all publicity , even bad publicity , is good publicity..marketing 101..I smell a new light coming out...

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If brs reads this thread, please understand im a fan , its your body of work, it's impressive buy all means..can we get a real world comparison , or please represent us and pruduce something we consider a worthy replacement, in future endeavors im 100% confident you have the resources to do it , think about a bb as a shell you can build from , I would spend my $$ and knowledge , if I had your position, maybe there testing ??

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I will post some par measurements off my apex, but I can assure its not the same as brs test procedures, witch I feel is great..no complaints, I can see easy to explain high spots in the graphs, one of my reason to relay to the rc members is that after my person testing and working w the bb is they are very close to or "better," , spread and par numbers, after a diffuser , also the use of the aftermarket diode replacement bords, the standard bb is ok to a 70% standard imo but the addition of the diffuser and new diodes, its a word of difference than the brs video, I know my light is not stock, if you also understand t5s are every year , all , all leds have a life span even the best of the best bin leds, just only arguing over moths not years. , the bet is still own over a radion, we just need some real world comparison, when I was a younger man I helped w car audio amplifiers design and cost analysis, I can say for 100% the cost is in the bulk, the weight of the heat sink, all the $$$ in the heat sink..simple..

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I have many hobbies... Home gunsmithing, DIY Audio (especially vacuum tubes) my VW super Beetle, and Aquarium keeping being the top four... In any esoteric hobby you really have to look at things objectively, because often there is a huge price gap between "good for 90%" and "end-all, be-all" when it comes to many things. There are some other products that they could have compared the black box in question to, of course. I understand that this was the one they were offered to test, so that's what they used, but maybe including some screenshots of the other fixtures opened up to show the differences would have been a good idea... That would at least prove that they aren't speaking for every fixture on the market. I understand BRS not really caring for these fixtures (and if they can't "in good conscience" sell them, that's their call, I wouldn't either) but I suppose they could have done a little more to be unbiased.

A followup video would be a neat idea, wonder if anybody would be willing to send them one of the better fixtures? Maybe even with a diffuser or something to prove how useful they can be with a little work? Maybe suggest a test without the optics installed to reduce PAR hotspots?

Surely one of the Black Box Mafia has one laying around to offer up to science?



My main gripes on these are as follows-

Drivers- using quality drivers like Meanwell or something similar would be much safer and have much better longevity

Emitters- using decent brands like LumiLEDs or Cree would be an improvement, and could actually make the fixture a much better contender, and would need less overall emitters, which would offset increased cost

Heatsink- the models without an actual heatsink shouldn't even be offered. if one of the fans go out, the whole board will suffer from vastly decreased lifetime. I've fixed a dozen of these things for fan-related issues, from adding an external fan suply, to reflowing new emitters, all could be prevented with better thermal solutions involving a heatsink.

Even simply adding a heatsink (which some models already feature) and using better drivers would be a small increase in cost that would make these a vastly better product, and of course these are available with these improvements, but not really at the $65-100 range...
 
First, BRS has extended an open invitation to Reefbreeders and SB Reef Lights to test their fixtures. I don't think either have taken them up on the offer.

Two, there won't be a follow up video. This video cost them over $5k to produce. These videos aren't cheap.

Third, it would take BRS less than a day to get one of the black box manufacturers to make them their own branded fixture with all the upgraded things people are talking about in here. There has to be a reason they haven't. Maybe they lose other brands? Is that worth it? Only they can answer that. I certainly wouldn't risk losing entire brands for a silly light.
 
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My main gripes on these are as follows-
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I agree with you on all three points and there are non-top tier suppliers addressing all three.

It is about price points what people will pay. Some won't pay for more than bottom of the barrel prices, so companies spring up to fill the niche.
 
First, BRS has extended an open invitation to Reefbreeders and SB Reef Lights to test their fixtures. I don't think either have taken them up on the offer.
Sounds like a good story and maybe they did. Sales and marketing is about destroying the competition and making profit, not being nice or fair to the competition.

My two favourite examples from my S&M days are: a company I worked for that tried to goad IBM into a lawsuit to get onto the front pages of the tech rags, another company I worked for that implied there was a security back door in a competitors product, going so far as to provide a link to a non existent NSA page as proof. The latter got the company a $3 million security contract.

Its about creating doubt, destroying the competition and making more $$.

BRS implied the bottom of the barrel crap black box they bought is representative of all black boxes when it clearly is not. I know what that smells like.
 
I didn't abandon this post, my recent light failure put time into that , also I have a business to operate, I have to watch the brs video again, I'm not sure on there test parameters , mostly the test tank, I have a few 2x2x1 but I believe they had a 2x2x2 have to check.

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I didn't abandon this post, my recent light failure put time inro that, also I have a business to operate, I have to rewatch the brs video , I'm not sure on there test parameters , mostly t h e test tank, I have a few 2x2x1 but I believe they had a 2x2x2 have to check.pic of new design, only drilled the uv.
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Looks a little blue in pic, but close the true color, t5s are two , giesemann true actinic , and two ati purple plus, popping, I also use a few 10w 410nm supplement leds 5 of them. Wish I upped the wattage on those.
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I would like to see the power usage for all those lights? Plus your tank is lit by 216 watts of T5 with LED assist. Good LEDs stand on there own, and do not require help from other sources. Kenneth I am still not sure of the harpooning of BRS? Everything they posted on there video was spot on especially the part of hot spots, and only lighting the size of the fixture, unless you hang it 12+ inches above the tank. Which was what I encountered when I used them. And yes there are companies that take those fixtures and improve on them and charge for that, which is fine.
 
The vast majority will stick to the name brand lights that have a proven track record.
Black boxes have a proven track record even BRS acknowledge they will grow SPS. I have used them in the past and they grew SPS with colour.

We will enjoy the customer service, reliability, and peace of mind of knowing we have a quality made product.
Not all BBs are created equal when it comes to build quality mine were well made with proper heatsinks decent drivers and wiring certainly no fire risk. I will concede it is not that easy to spot which is which.

You can enjoy the extra 250-300 extra dollars (if we are talking hydra 26 or A360W), worry if your getting a light that will light on fire, burn up in a few months, and have no one to call when they do. And we will agree to disagree lol, but I do hope everything works out on the tank for you!

Sure some have gone on fire I am not sure how many out of the thousands that have been sold but very few I have heard of but get a quality one and it won't spontaneously combust. I had mine 3 years before I sold them on about 3 years ago. Thye were just the blue and white LED units back then prior to full spectrum units. I wish I kept the photos of the internals to show the build quality but when I did show them on a uK forum 2 separate electricians confirmed they were built very well inc heat shielded cables. I don't expect you to believe me however as it's not in your interest but I have no need to lie.

Facts from a previous user.
The right BB work and work well
They grow SPS with colour.
They are cheap
Not all BB are created equal.
They aren't pretty.
Built to a price for sure but the right ones are built well.
A friend of mine still has his on his tank and he grows SPS like weeds.
IMO and this is just an opinion they offer VFM providing you buy the right ones.

I guess some will always mix facts with opinions.
BTW I now have Radions as when it came to the time to replace them and LED's had moved on as with full spectrum I could afford them. Now, are they worth 5/6 times the price of my BBs IMO nope but it's just an opinion. Would I go back to BBs sure but I would make sure they are the better built ones.

Lighting continues to evolve BBs will also. If I was choosing lights today and I had the money I would consider something like an ATI Hybrid.
 
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