Bubble King 250 deluxe internal 2006

[rsdino]

I'm looking for some advice please
I have the above skimmer and recently the skimmer pump (red dragon 1500) died.
I was fortunate enough to have a friend send me his spare Laguna 16500 block with needle wheel.
At the time I thought it was a straight swap out.
Unfortunately the block is too large for my cradle and the output pipe is too high for the input to my skimmer.
I am having to jam a towel in between the top of my skimmer and the cabinet to keep the skimmer down.
What my question is
Well it's kinda twofold
Would it be best to try to build a cradle that suits the larger Laguna pump but keep the output from the pump low enough to be able to match height with the input of the skimmer.
Or
Would it be smarter to find out the correct sized Laguna pump that is a direct change out for the red dragon 1500
Any help or suggestions would be hugely appreciated
Thanks

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[slief]

That is a big block motor and you won't find that in a Laguna pump. Your best bet is to buy the correct block for that skimmer. Not only won't you find the correct block in the Laguna but Red Dragon pump has the AKB (Anti Lime Bypass) which circulates water from the pressure side/volume of the pump the magnet cavity to keep the inside of the pump cool and reduce calcium build up. That AKB drastically increases the longevity of the pump. You will not find a block anywhere with that fitting going into the block. The Askoll motors for these skimmers are completely custom. Those blocks when properly maintained will last 10+ years. Do yourself a favor and buy the correct block for you skimmer. It's not a cheap block but if you take care of it, it will last you a LONG time.

I see you are in Germany. This should be the correct block for your skimmer. I would ping Torsten to be certain though since that is a much older skimmer but it's definitely a larger block motor.
http://royalexclusiv.net/Spare-Part...-with-AKB-for-Bubble-King-1000-2500::200.html

 

[rsdino]

Ah
Thanks slief,
I was in Germany way back when, when I started this login. I'll have to change that. I live in Australia now (home)
That's why I was wondering if there is a list or reference as to what Laguna motor blocks suit which re motor blocks so I can order the correct one. And if anyone has any thoughts on "pimping" the motor block by going for the next largest. Though I am having difficulties trying to tune the skimmer with the larger block now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[slief]

Ah
Thanks slief,
I was in Germany way back when, when I started this login. I'll have to change that. I live in Australia now (home)
That's why I was wondering if there is a list or reference as to what Laguna motor blocks suit which re motor blocks so I can order the correct one. And if anyone has any thoughts on "pimping" the motor block by going for the next largest. Though I am having difficulties trying to tune the skimmer with the larger block now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Very glad to help. First, let me clarify something for you. The blocks that Royal Exclusiv uses in these skimmers aren't Laguna Blocks. They are OEM'd from Askoll in Italy. Laguna also OEM's some of their blocks from Askoll as well. Royal Exclusiv uses custom wound blocks that are designed for the skimmers as the rotational speeds of the block are designed to match the impeller/volute and skimmer size for best balance within the skimmer. Some of the smaller skimmers use what I refer to as a "small block" motor. In those cases, some have used the Laguna Maxflo 1350 which replaced the Laguna 1500. Those only worked with the non AKB type pumps and while their windings were different than those of the Red Dragons, they would work in place of the small block Red Dragon 1500 with some minor tuning tweaks.

Your 300 sized skimmer is a different animal and uses a completely different block not found in the Laguna's. Aside for the size and winding differences as the Red Dragons are custom made for these skimmers, the AKB connection is something the Royal Exclusiv adds. The AKB cools the magnet cavity by circulating water through it. The cooling reduces calcium build up in the magnet cavity which is a problem in reef tanks since we have higher calcium and alk levels and heat causes the calcium to bind to solid surfaces which leads to premature failure of the blocks if not cleaned more frequently. The flow from the AKB also reduces friction in the magnet cavity which also increases the longevity of the pump. If you break these pumps down every 4-5 months, remove the impeller & bearing (located at the base of the magnet cavity) and soak all the parts in vinegar for 10 minutes, then scrub and rinse so that the pump looks like new inside and out, these pumps will last indefinitely. Calcium buildup and a lack of maintenance are the two leading causes of failures in the blocks. Foreign objects such as shells or other blockages are the other reasons for failure.

If you really want to "pimp your skimmer out", get yourself the RD3 60 pump. Its unlike any DC pump out there and allows fine tuning with the push of a button. It has so many different speed adjustments that you can really dial it in.
http://royalexclusiv.net/Skimmers/R...ioe-3-Mini-Speedy-60-Watt-2500-l-h::1464.html

That said, the existing Red Dragon pump that your skimmer came with is no slouch. It's custom designed to provide balance and airflow that you won't find in any other block/impeller volute combo short of the RD3 and there is nothing wrong with that model should you decide to replace the block. I'd also suggest getting a spare bearing so you have it on hand. It's cheap insurance.
http://royalexclusiv.net/Spare-Part...K/screws-consumables/carbon-bearing::329.html

 

[rsdino]

Wow
Thanks sleif
Amazing
More informative than the last 2 months of research
I never realised I could remove the bearing at the base of the pump.
I bought this skimmer in 2006/7 with about 6 months use while still living in Germany.
I built my tank and setup over there but never had it running until 2012 after moving back home to ozz and bringing all my tank gear with me. The skimmer has been running flat out since.
It's one of the original bubble king 250 internals
I'm pretty sure 2006 was one of their original series of skimmers. It's so old that the skimmer body was never designed to come away from the base plate.
Over the years the glue has given away and I can now seperate them (which is great when I pull it out to clean)
I was always of the belief that the only modification to the askoll pumps was the Kalk bypass had been drilled.
I also run an re speedy 75w as the return.
That would be a great skimmer pump
I am able to get Laguna blocks at a decent price so it would be good if I could replace the red dragon 1500 with an equivalent sized Laguna.
The problem I have with the current (loan) pump and housing is that it's the larger 16500 Laguna pump and the cradle is too high. So even with a longer silicone junction between the skimmer pump and the skimmer body, it lifts the body out of the base plate and tuning is difficult
I have to have the raiser tube nearly at full extension.
I assume the red dragon 1500 pump is either closer to the Laguna smaller block
Either the 10600 or 9000 I think they are.
The only reservation I have for the re speedy pumps is that I'm already on my third.
The blocks don't have a good reputation for lasting.
So if I can get a Laguna replacement then the pocket would thank me
Not only that
It's slightly more wife friendly when putting in a funds request [emoji12]
Very interesting as you say, that the pumps are wound differently to match speed to the impeller/ volute
You mentioned above that the bk300 has a different block
Is that the same case as the bk250?
The skimmer I have is the bk250 deluxe I believe - please correct me if I'm wrong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[slief]

Wow
Thanks sleif
Amazing
More informative than the last 2 months of research
I never realised I could remove the bearing at the base of the pump.
I bought this skimmer in 2006/7 with about 6 months use while still living in Germany.
I built my tank and setup over there but never had it running until 2012 after moving back home to ozz and bringing all my tank gear with me. The skimmer has been running flat out since.
It's one of the original bubble king 250 internals
I'm pretty sure 2006 was one of their original series of skimmers. It's so old that the skimmer body was never designed to come away from the base plate.
Over the years the glue has given away and I can now seperate them (which is great when I pull it out to clean)
I was always of the belief that the only modification to the askoll pumps was the Kalk bypass had been drilled.
I also run an re speedy 75w as the return.
That would be a great skimmer pump
I am able to get Laguna blocks at a decent price so it would be good if I could replace the red dragon 1500 with an equivalent sized Laguna.
The problem I have with the current (loan) pump and housing is that it's the larger 16500 Laguna pump and the cradle is too high. So even with a longer silicone junction between the skimmer pump and the skimmer body, it lifts the body out of the base plate and tuning is difficult
I have to have the raiser tube nearly at full extension.
I assume the red dragon 1500 pump is either closer to the Laguna smaller block
Either the 10600 or 9000 I think they are.
The only reservation I have for the re speedy pumps is that I'm already on my third.
The blocks don't have a good reputation for lasting.
So if I can get a Laguna replacement then the pocket would thank me
Not only that
It's slightly more wife friendly when putting in a funds request [emoji12]
Very interesting as you say, that the pumps are wound differently to match speed to the impeller/ volute
You mentioned above that the bk300 has a different block
Is that the same case as the bk250?
The skimmer I have is the bk250 deluxe I believe - please correct me if I'm wrong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The 300 series uses the BK1500-2500 block where as yours I think uses the 1000-2500 block. It was a typo when I said 300 skimmer. They are similar but different blocks. I can tell just by looking at your pictures that the block you have is not the standard ones found in the Laguna's, let alone the Laguna Maxflo 1500. It's a different shaped block than those in the Maxflo 1500 and a different size block than those in their larger Maxflo's which is the block you have now. None of those will obviously match up to your original stand/volute & impeller as you have already found out. Also, as I mentioned, there are other changes from Askoll beyond just the AKB with these pumps to get them balanced properly for their perspective skimmers. The block you are using now is similar to that used in the 300 series which is a larger block but it too has different windings which means higher RPM. I understand the desire to want to save money but if you want the skimmer to run properly as it was originally designed, get the proper matching block so it's not only a balanced skimmer again but so it will last since you can retain your AKB. That AKB is more important than you may realize for the skimmer pump.

As for the bearing, check post 2 of this thread below. It describes the bearing removal and replacement in the blocks. I think there were some older Red Dragons in the earliest models that didn't have a removable bearing but the thread below will make it pretty obvious for you.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2573406

 

[rsdino]

I'm fully with you slief
So is it possible to buy just the block alone
Or would it be smarter to go for a rd3 dc adjustable block.
Obviously cost is a concern
But I would also like to know that the block is going to last.
The motor just stopped.
Do you think it's worth trying to take the bearings out and clean them up?
I was free spinning the roter in the block after it stopped
Are there any other checks I could do to confirm my old block is 100% dead?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[slief]

I'm fully with you slief
So is it possible to buy just the block alone
Or would it be smarter to go for a rd3 dc adjustable block.
Obviously cost is a concern
But I would also like to know that the block is going to last.
The motor just stopped.
Do you think it's worth trying to take the bearings out and clean them up?
I was free spinning the roter in the block after it stopped
Are there any other checks I could do to confirm my old block is 100% dead?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would absoltely take the block apart and clean it inside and out per the instructions above or in that link. You may just be surprised. That said, you can buy just the block. I provided the link to that above though I would email Germany to verify that it's the right block for that skimmer. I am pretty certain it is but I would want to be sure before you ordered it. As for the RD3, I love that pump. I have one on my SM250 and it's been an incredibly great pump. It's going on 2 years now and never skipped a beat. I also run a pair of RD3 230's and love those too! For the Deluxe 250, this would be the pump you would want. A setting of about 38 watts should be perfect for your skimmer. I'd start at 36 watts. You might need to raise your sump level a bit or close the wedge pipe some. They are very efficient and the slower setting will result in better contact time and more dense foam than running it at high speeds. These pumps are really versitle and the speed settings would replace the adjustable nozzle which makes fine tuning much easier since it's just a push of a button to fine tune it rather than turning the nozzle a fraction of a turn at a time and playing the waiting game to see the results of the adjustment.

 

[rsdino]

Slief
Do you have a link to the setup and tuning of one of these older style bk250 deluxe
I'm pretty certain I have been setting it up correctly but it would be great to make sure


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[slief]

Slief
Do you have a link to the setup and tuning of one of these older style bk250 deluxe
I'm pretty certain I have been setting it up correctly but it would be great to make sure


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There aren't any links or good setup instructions. Essentially the way it works is that opening the nozzle increases the air flow and decreases the water flow into the pump. This happens because the pumps needle wheel spins at a set speed. The pump doesn't know the difference between air and water let alone care. As you open the nozzle more air enters the volute and displaces the water. It helps to mark the nozzle with a Sharpie pen and make a line across the top or a visible side of the of the nozzle onto the part it threads into so you have a visual point of reference for where the nozzle is in terms of incremental turn. You do that with the nozzle fully closed. Every tank is different as far as surface tension, load, salinity and amount of dissolved organics so the "ideal" settings from one tank to the next can vary greatly. Start at 1.5 turns out and let the skimmer settle in. Make little tiny turns at a time until you find the point where you get the most dense foam head. There will be a point where you inject too much air into the skimmer and the bubbles burst rapidly at the surface. It also helps to wear gloves when you make those adjustments as the oils from your skin impact the surface tension of the water and will require a longer wait period for the skimmer to settle back in after making adjustments. Gloves will help mitigate that and allow the skimmer to settle in faster after you make an adjustment. I suggest only turning the nozzle a fraction of a turn at a time because once you get near the sweet spot, a little adjustment can make a big difference in terms of really fine tuning. Taking notes also helps to not only remember where you are in terms of turns out but also lets you track the changes so you know when you've gone to far or not far enough. You can also turn it from one extreme to the other so as to gauge what the impact is on the skimmers performance. The sweet spot for that skimmer will likely be between 1.5 and 3 turns out but it could vary for reasons mentioned above.. Once you find the point where you get the most dense foam and a nice stable column in the skimmer with no surging, adjust the water level in the skimmer so that the line where bubbles turn to foam is at or just below the base of the white collar where the neck threads to the skimmers body. The line where bubbles to to foam is a pretty obvious one as it's a solid line. This will be your driest skim setting. I like to open the wedge pipe up all the way and use the sump level to get the foam line to that point and then use the wedge pipe to fine tune from wet to dry.

 

[rsdino]

Excellent
Thanks slief
Very much appreciated


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk