Bubbletip2's 200 Gallon system

10/10/07

Quote from other forum:

"Looking great, Jim. About the live rock - it looks really good. It's amazing the difference between a really fresh batch of live rock and one that's ... ah ... not! BTW - you are a much braver man than I - handling live rock with no gloves!Oh, and about the Bears, it could be worse. Check out my Niners."

As I said in the previous post, very fresh rock. Right out of the ocean Still completely crusted with coraline algae and most of the coraline seems to be holding up and not bleaching even after a couple weeks under the lights. What are you afraid of holding rocK? I probably should use gloves. typically my hands sting for a few days after cleaning uncured live rock.And lastly, the Bears showed some life against the Packers last sunday. May be a turn around but I am not getting my hopes up. Sorry to hear about your quarterback. It looked like San Fran might have a good year this year.
 
Live Rock Cycling Pt 2

Live Rock Cycling Pt 2

10/20/07

Ok, where did I leave off. A lot of the live rock pictures you have seen are ones that were taken after the rock was thoroughly examined for any unwanted critters, brushed off of any detritus, and then rinsed several times before adding it to the tank.Here is a pic of my live rock cleaning station.

LiveRockCleaningStation.jpg



I have done it this way for 12 years. Each time I clean live rock ,I pull out my old box containing my nylon brushes, an old metal probe that I have had since I started reefkeeping, long nose pliers, short nose pliers, 3 buckets of water from the tank, some tote tub lids, a desk lamp, and of course my geeky head lamp(probably the most important item as it allows me to look in the rock for unwanted crabs, worms, or shrimp.

I wanted to do something different to test exactly how much water is lost to the addition of the live rock and to really know how many total gallons this system holds. I purchased 150lbs of uncured rock if you remember. So what I did was fill up 2.5 gallon buckets with water from the display as it was running full of water with nothing in the display. I first took out 7.5 gallons thinking that I was going to at least need to do this 1 or 2 times more. The water was used to rinse the rock out of detritus:

RockSwirling.jpg


Surprisingly, after cleaning all of the rock and adding it to the tank, 7.5 gallons is all I needed to take out to get the water level back to where it was with all of the live rock in the display and sump. Wow was I shocked. I really thought this amount of live rock would at least take out 15-20 gallons of water. Just proved another point to myself that this rock is highly porous, filled with holes which did not require much water to be taken out. I now have a pretty good estimate of a 180 gallon system with water in the pipes, sump, skimmer, and display. This will allow me to accurately measure out any additives that I use in my reef systems. After all of the rock is cleaned and thoroughly inspected I placed approximately 120lbs in the display and 30lbs in the sump to free up display space for swimming room and coral growth.

Here are some shots of the first aquascapes of the tank on its first day fo cycle:

FirstAqauscape.jpg


FirstAqauscape2.jpg


FirstFullTankShotPlumbedVertical.jpg


You will notice no sand on the bottom of the display. This is my preffered method for cycling. Reason being is I can clean the rocks off with a strong powerhead(mjmod), blowing off all of the loose detritus that I can easily vacuum off the bottom of the aquarium. I will have certainly blown sand all over the place if I added the sand while cycling. This method also keeps detritus out of the sand bed which I feel is a major cause for sand bed problems that people face. I really feel that if you can blow off as much detritus as possible during the cycle, your sand bed will be much more manageable down the road. As stated in the previous posts, the ammonia level never went above 0.5 and was completely cycled in 3 weeks time. I did weekly water changes of 30 gallons during this process. No livestock was added during this time as well.

While the system was cycling, I had time to work on finishing up the stand and canopy for lights/fans. I do not run lights myself during the curing/cycling until the cycle is complete. I did run 2 daisy chained Phosban Reactors filled with carbon in the first chamber and Phosban in the second. This is the first time I have used Phosban during a cycle thinking it may prevent a brown diatom bloom. The brown diatom bloom came as usual, so my thoughts on this are it is a necessary step of the cycle that is unavoidable. I have heard people say they have cycled tanks without a bloom. I have never seen this myself, especially when cycling with uncured rock. So there you have it, cycling inside the display using uncured live rock with no apparant problems noted to date. During this time I also tested levels and made additions to get the system where it needed to be. I as well as most reefkeepers are rarely satisfied with the first, second, or even third aquascape that is attempted. I will show some other pics of different aquascapes I attempted in the following posts...
 
10/20/07

quote from other forum

"Jim, Thanks for this informative post. BTW, I agree you can't avoid diatoms."

You know at this point in the hobby, I try to post as much useful information as I can. I am also always open to suggestions, willing to answer questions, and available to give sound advice as best as I can. It was certainly worth a try to prevent diatoms. After only 15 Astrea snails added the brown diatoms are pretty much gone in less than a week. So not bad overall. These Astreas went to town leaving bare rock behind. May be the phosban reactor helped. Hard to say without a control.
 
10/20/07

Quote from other forum:

"Yep, great post. Fascinating theory on the detritus buildup in the sandbed from cycling. There may be somthing to that. Also a really cool thought on the phosban and the diatom bloom. Didn't stop it, but very interesting none the less. It's looking really good. Thanks for sharing."

I have made the mistake of putting sand in with cycling rock and had nothing but trouble with the sand bed. You would not believe how much detritus came off during the cycle Even with rinsing and brushing off quite a bit before putting the rock in the tank. I used a MaxiJet 1200 modded with the rated 2400gph kit. Man these things are great to blow off detritus. The socks I use in the sump catches the majority of what was blown into the water column leaving a very clean tank. I had to change the socks out every 4 days when cycling typically after blowing off detritus a couple times every other day.

As far as the Phosban Reactor, I don't beleive it can harm anything during the cycle. It may have limited the bloom but like I said in the previous post it is hard to tell without a control. Again, I daisy chained two Phosban Reactors and filled the first chamber with carbon to reduce the organics in the water and filled the second chamber with Phosban. The carbon is great for cycling and keeping water quality up which may have helped to prevent a huge ammonia spike as well. After the cycle was complete I then added the Purigen on the skimmer return to reduce nitrate and also to help polish the water. I have heard of people using Purigen when cycling and thing it is counterproductive. The whole idea behind cycling is to get nitrate to increase to levels that build the bacterial colonies in the system. If you use Purigen during the cycle you may reduce nitrate to the point that it takes longer to build up the good bacteria we all want. I would recommend starting it after the nitrogen cycle is complete for this reason.Thanks for the complements!

Other quote:

"Yeah, I cycled with UNcured LR, and there was tons and tons and TONS of detritus. I was still blowing it off rocks every couple of days 3 months after the cycle. I try to blow the rocks off weekly now, but it's nowhere near as much gunk."

I agree with both of your points. Things can die off six months or longer into the life of the tank. The method I used with a strong powerhead really helped to speed the process. Blowing of the rocks as much as possible is still necessary. I just don't use as strong a powerhead in areas where there are coral. Otherwise I use a turkey baster and this seems to help as well.
 
11/7/07

The rock is doing really well. Surprisingly the majority of the purple coraline algae did not bleach. I was not expecting this at all. Typically the coraline will bleach out and especially under 400w bulbs. The green coraline algae did not stay however. I am interested to see if it returns. I have probably reaqauscaped this tank ten times already. I always think it is the final display until I have to move a coral around and then feel the need for a change. Hopefully I can pin this down soon so I can start glueing the colonies in their final resting places.

I did add a 50lb bag of ESV sand("Fine Grade" Ultra-White Calcium Carbonate Reef Substrate) and a 40lb bag of Ocean Direct. I really feel I have too much sand and will likely take out 20lbs or so over the next couple months. It came out to about 3 inches of sand throughout the tank. The sand bed calculator on RC does not factor into account the rock structure so I would not recommend basing your sand purchasing on that. I actually have another bag of Ocean Direct just sitting here as it would have been way too much to add to this 24 inch deep tank.

The main problem I am having right now is keeping the sand in place with only one Vortech pump, the Dart return and a MJmod. The Vortech is an awesome pump for a tank this size but it is just tricky to place in a way that keeps the sand down. Oceanic makes a 30 inch tank(178g) with the same foot print and I wish I would have went this route to make it easier to work the pumps and keep the sand still. What I do to make sure that I have a cloudless tank when adding the sand is using a drink pitcher. I rinsed the ESV sand off about seven times in 10lb increments in a 5lb bucket to wash a lot of the dust away. I then scoop out as much as will fill up in the pitcher. I then slowly lower the pitcher in the water so the sand stays in the pitcher. I then lower it down to the bottom and slowly shimmy it out onto the bottom of the tank. I continued this until all of the sand was placed in the tank. I did not rinse the Ocean Direct sand. In about 3 hours my tank was completely clear.
 
8/5/08

Wow! It already reached the second page. I am finally done pulling all the posts from the other forum. I stopped posting on there so I will have to fill in the gap from last November to now. I will now have to gather a bunch of pictures from setting up the lights. That pretty much completes the build. I will get pics up of livestock that were added hopefully in order that it came.

Again in the next couple weeks I will be plumbing in the Reeflo Orca 200 and I will be setting up my new LumenBrights(minis) with 3 -250w halides along with a pair of 54w T5's.

I will try to get this up to date in the next couple weeks. I actually think it is kind of cool that everyone can see the tank build put together and not have to wait months for each post and everything to get done. Again, I hope you enjoy the thread...more pics to come...
 
Geez man, I don't get to just throw out a hundred posts while I am at work like you do... Give me some time.

Actually I just set up some new lights yesterday and that took up most of my time.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13099886#post13099886 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bubbletip2
Geez man, I don't get to just throw out a hundred posts while I am at work like you do... Give me some time.

Actually I just set up some new lights yesterday and that took up most of my time.

:lol: Work? Whats that?
How do the new lights look? Any better? Worse?
 
I wanted to include some shots taken when the tank was first plumbed and I started to make aquascaping decisions. I really wanted to open the tank up a bit and not just have a big wall of rock. I am kind of bored of the rock walls. I decided to use some pvc to create pillars. Anyway, you will notice many changes over the course of this thread as I am a bit neurotic about how I want my rock work with respect to the coral I am keeping. I am trying my best to give each coral the perfect spot for growth.

Here are some of those early pics - you will notice the bare bottom so that I can easily clean up the detritus as I grabbed the mj mod to blow the rocks off every other day. I really feel this is the best method when cycling rock within the tank to prevent sand bed problems in the future. To this day my sand is very clean and I have still not gotten a cyano outbreak and it has almost been a year.

IMG_3162.jpg


IMG_3164.jpg


IMG_3165.jpg


IMG_3173.jpg
 
So after the tank cycled which really was done in less than two weeks thanks to some really nice live rock(smelled like the ocean - not ammonia), I was ready for my lights. I cycle tanks without lights, always have and probably always will. I hooked up my lights 5 weeks after I plumbed the tank.

When planning this tank out, lighting was one of the biggest concerns for me. I was having a custom stand built and talked to Matt at Sho Tank about my options. I went from 250w 10K bulbs under spyder reflectors with VHO bulbs to trying to figure out how to get Lumenarc minis in the canopy and have the VHO's or T5's hanging underneath the LumenArcs.

After a couple weeks of trying to figure this out I finally decided on the Spyder Reflectors with 2 - 10K 250w bulbs and super actinic VHO's. After I made my decision I came across a thread on RC where Mike Leonard had posted some awesome pics of his 500g tank with 400w 12K Reeflux bulbs. I PM'd him asking him what he thought of 12K Reeflux. He relied quickly, gave me his phone # and asked me to call. After talking to him for an hour or so I was convinced that I wanted to make my setup easy and go with 2 - 400w 12K Reeflux with Lumenarc mini reflectors.

156gLumenArcTankSpread-yeahright.jpg


I wanted to make sure the reflectors could be could be moved out of the way so Mike suggested a slide rail system with a 1 x 4 to accomplish this easiest. I spent weeks on figuring out a lighting system and Mike figures out a perfect solution in less than an hour. Nice.

Here is a shot of the slide rail system I put together for the 2 - 400w 12K reeflux under LA3's.:

IMG_3315.jpg


Notice the height I had to bring the 400w bulbs over the tank. I was at approximately 12" bulb to water when using the LumenArcs. I built slide rails thinking I would need to lower them still and what I found was the amount of heat put out by 400w bulbs is to high to be mounted so low. I never really utilized the other side rails. The other thing I noticed was that lowering them to 10.5" and 9", the amount of spread over this 5ft tank was minimal leaving a big shadow area in the middle of the tank. 12" was minimal on this oblong tank for decent spread. I ran these LA3 minis for approximately a month and a half to two months before I switched to 2 - Large LumenBrights. I would have gone this route to begin with but they were not available at the time. They were just coming out...
 


That was my favorite out of all of your aquascapes.

Have any closeup pics of your corals? [/B]


Glad you liked it but it is history - lots more coral in the tank now and I needed to create more surface area for them to grow.

You are the most impatient person I have ever met Jeremy:rollface: Geez man, let me get through with lighting and then I will get to livestock. Taking pictures of all your tanks has left me little time to take enough of my own so give me a few...weeks...

I will be posting frag shots of when I first got coral and where they are now asap...
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13116192#post13116192 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bubbletip2
Here is an idea... why don't you manage your thread and I will manage mine...:lol:

What's the fun in that.:D
+ The more harassing posts I make the closer you are to a thread split.:rollface:
 
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