Budget Greenhouse Project
- Thread starter hamburglar
- Start date
hamburglar
New member
Sorry guys that Ihave dropped the ball on the updates. Nothing new has really happened in the last couple of months. Actually I have not been spending a lot of time out there because I am working on a new retail project on my indoor system. It is taking up an enormous amount of my time due to some pretty interesting features that will be included.
Ok, enough excuses....here's what is going on out there.
I ended up just getting a very small propane heater for "taking the edge off" when the temps drop into the 20's. It is one of these http://www.mrheater.com/productdetail.asp?id=678
The heater is just the right size because it has a 4000btu low setting. This is enough to get the job done without burning much fuel. As for the fuel, it seems to cost about the same as electricity. It is just nice to have an alternate fuel heating option in case a winter storm knocks out the power. I would be able to crank that heater up to 9000btu's and heat without electricity if needed.
Covering the tanks ended up to be a serious PITA because the greenhouse is so small. There is not a lot of room on either sides of the pool to make this easy. I'll just go with the heater for now.
So, on out New Bern NC winter nights, I am burning about 15KWA worth of electricity per day, and I estimate about $0.50 worth of propane per day on average. I'm looking at about $2 per day to operate the greenhouse in the winter.
I need to get some new SPS in the greenhouse, but I have been swamping myself with new softies lately. They sell better anyway, and I still have some equipment to pay for if you know what I mean. Mushrooms, Xenia, zoanthids, and leathers do pretty good in the greenhouse. My particular SPS species all turn brown in it
For any of you thinking about trying this, I still say that a larger greenhouse would make a lot of things easier. I went with this 8x6 because it was very cheap, and I didn't expect to keep it running more than a couple of years. I just found out that harbor freight now sells a larger "low cost" greenhouse. It is 8x12 and you can find the details here: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93358
I'll keep mine running at least another year and try to get new stuff out there whenever possible.
Ok, enough excuses....here's what is going on out there.
I ended up just getting a very small propane heater for "taking the edge off" when the temps drop into the 20's. It is one of these http://www.mrheater.com/productdetail.asp?id=678
The heater is just the right size because it has a 4000btu low setting. This is enough to get the job done without burning much fuel. As for the fuel, it seems to cost about the same as electricity. It is just nice to have an alternate fuel heating option in case a winter storm knocks out the power. I would be able to crank that heater up to 9000btu's and heat without electricity if needed.
Covering the tanks ended up to be a serious PITA because the greenhouse is so small. There is not a lot of room on either sides of the pool to make this easy. I'll just go with the heater for now.
So, on out New Bern NC winter nights, I am burning about 15KWA worth of electricity per day, and I estimate about $0.50 worth of propane per day on average. I'm looking at about $2 per day to operate the greenhouse in the winter.
I need to get some new SPS in the greenhouse, but I have been swamping myself with new softies lately. They sell better anyway, and I still have some equipment to pay for if you know what I mean. Mushrooms, Xenia, zoanthids, and leathers do pretty good in the greenhouse. My particular SPS species all turn brown in it
For any of you thinking about trying this, I still say that a larger greenhouse would make a lot of things easier. I went with this 8x6 because it was very cheap, and I didn't expect to keep it running more than a couple of years. I just found out that harbor freight now sells a larger "low cost" greenhouse. It is 8x12 and you can find the details here: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93358
I'll keep mine running at least another year and try to get new stuff out there whenever possible.
hamburglar
New member
Wow! 20,000 BTU should be enough to heat the waterto 77-80. Are you having to use any electric heat at all?
hamburglar
New member
With my low volume, I have found the temperature to shift very fast. The electric heaters are good for maintaining the temperature at high level of precision. The gas heat is just a supplement in my case.
I think an ideal scenerio would be thousands of gallons of water in a large greenhouse with a fairly thick concrete floor. This way you could heat 100% with gas heaters, and temperature fluctuations would be extremly slow.....almost non-existant between day and night.
I think an ideal scenerio would be thousands of gallons of water in a large greenhouse with a fairly thick concrete floor. This way you could heat 100% with gas heaters, and temperature fluctuations would be extremly slow.....almost non-existant between day and night.
why not add more water to the set up. Get some of those huge blue barrels and connect them to the system. You could even bury them for better temp control...Just a thought. The Clay is a pain to to dig but with a good hydralic(hmmmmm how to spell) walk behind trencher it is quick and quite easy. For digging the holes to bury the barrels use a small bobcat w/ backhoe attachment. HOLES I LOVE DIGGING WITH POWER EQUIPMENT.
IF you are trying to maintain heat, what you need is a more water, but do not connect it to your system. They use water in greenhouses to maintain temperature, but to do tht the water may warm 10-12 degrees during the day and drop the same amount at night. Paint the barrels black.
Solar Greenhouses use a "water wall". About 4 gallons for every square foot of greenhouse. BUt this water will vary in temperature as it first accumulates heat and then give it back at night. It cannot be part of the aquarium system to work.
Solar Greenhouses use a "water wall". About 4 gallons for every square foot of greenhouse. BUt this water will vary in temperature as it first accumulates heat and then give it back at night. It cannot be part of the aquarium system to work.
hamburglar
New member
No generator yet. I have enough deep cycle batteries and invertors around to keep me going for a few days. I will need to get one eventually since I am in Hurricane ally. I meanââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ you canââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t keep your beer cold but for so long on ice.
I have been slacking off on this thread again due to a retail endeavor on the web. During this time the greenhouse has produced only a few mushrooms. I have visited another local farmer who has had the same results. We are just not getting the SPS growth that we want.
Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m about to enter phase 2 of this little project. Phase 2 will start with the installation of a 400Watt 14,000K Metal Halide over the pool. I will probably run this as supplementation only, starting at 6 hours per day and adding more over time so that I can keep up with results. Another item I am looking into is a small vertical geothermal loop. This is entirely dependent on costs. I need to find someone who can drill me a 40-80 foot hole to sink PVC on the cheap. My chiller is working fine in the summer, but some free cooling would be nice. My local farmer buddy just installed a 400 foot horizontal loop using Ã"šÃ‚¾ inch PVC. I was shocked to find out that he was getting 2-4 gallons per minute with siphon action alone (4 foot drop). He might not even need a pump at all.
I will continue to post all results and take some pictures as major changes happen.
I have been slacking off on this thread again due to a retail endeavor on the web. During this time the greenhouse has produced only a few mushrooms. I have visited another local farmer who has had the same results. We are just not getting the SPS growth that we want.
Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m about to enter phase 2 of this little project. Phase 2 will start with the installation of a 400Watt 14,000K Metal Halide over the pool. I will probably run this as supplementation only, starting at 6 hours per day and adding more over time so that I can keep up with results. Another item I am looking into is a small vertical geothermal loop. This is entirely dependent on costs. I need to find someone who can drill me a 40-80 foot hole to sink PVC on the cheap. My chiller is working fine in the summer, but some free cooling would be nice. My local farmer buddy just installed a 400 foot horizontal loop using Ã"šÃ‚¾ inch PVC. I was shocked to find out that he was getting 2-4 gallons per minute with siphon action alone (4 foot drop). He might not even need a pump at all.
I will continue to post all results and take some pictures as major changes happen.
hamburglar
New member
No, I mean a siphon from a high tank to a sump. He primed it all with a powerhead, removed the powerhead, and the water kept flowing at a pretty good rate. The top tank water line is about 4 feet over the sump water line.
I never would have guessed he would get such a good flow rate through 400 feet of 3/4 inch pipe using 90's. I always figured you would have to use over 1 inch pipe with sweeping turns to get good flow.
I never would have guessed he would get such a good flow rate through 400 feet of 3/4 inch pipe using 90's. I always figured you would have to use over 1 inch pipe with sweeping turns to get good flow.
I agree, 4' of head can easily be negated by several 90s and long runs of pipe. But if its working, its working
I dont like the idea of running tank water through the geo loop for several reasons. I'd simply have a closed loop full of freshwater that only turned on when the T stat called for cooling. This way the heaters do not need to fight the cooling of the loop.
The second issue is growth inside the loop.
I dont like the idea of running tank water through the geo loop for several reasons. I'd simply have a closed loop full of freshwater that only turned on when the T stat called for cooling. This way the heaters do not need to fight the cooling of the loop.
The second issue is growth inside the loop.
hamburglar
New member
But then you need to invest in a heat exchanger of some sort. This poor mans method can be controled manually with a gate valve or through some sort of electric ball valve on a temperature controller.
Besides growth in the pipes, the only other problem I can come up with is stagnant water in the case of complete shutdown for several days.
These are good points to keep in mind before adding a long-term installation. I figure I can just flush out a small loop with diluted muratic acid on a maintenance schedule.....like one weekend in the dead of winter when the loop is not required. I could then reverse circulate lots of RO waste water through the system to rid it of the acid and particulate matter that comes off of the pipe walls.
I seem to keep coming up with uses for ro waste water and acid
Besides growth in the pipes, the only other problem I can come up with is stagnant water in the case of complete shutdown for several days.
These are good points to keep in mind before adding a long-term installation. I figure I can just flush out a small loop with diluted muratic acid on a maintenance schedule.....like one weekend in the dead of winter when the loop is not required. I could then reverse circulate lots of RO waste water through the system to rid it of the acid and particulate matter that comes off of the pipe walls.
I seem to keep coming up with uses for ro waste water and acid
hamburglar
New member
Sounds like the verticle loop my be out of reach for this budget system. I can't find anyone who will dig a hole for less than $800. I am going to look into other DIY methods to do this, or go back to the drawing boards.
I'm picking up the halide stuff this weekend. After a business trip next week, I will try to get it installed.
I'm picking up the halide stuff this weekend. After a business trip next week, I will try to get it installed.
rustybucket145
New member
Are there any lakes or ponds very close to your backyard? I was toying with the idea of running a loop to the bottom of a pond and have it return hopefully via siphon. You would have probably already done this if there was one close. Just thought I would mention it.
I have read through the thread. Is the reason for the halide for the SPS? Color? I am asking b/c I am in the planning phase of a greenhouse and I was thinking of installing a couple of VHO 100% Actinics over the section where my SPS would be. Do you think that this would give the SPS the spectrum that would fix the color issue? Or would I be better off starting with Halides? Why are they turning brown in natural light???
I have read through the thread. Is the reason for the halide for the SPS? Color? I am asking b/c I am in the planning phase of a greenhouse and I was thinking of installing a couple of VHO 100% Actinics over the section where my SPS would be. Do you think that this would give the SPS the spectrum that would fix the color issue? Or would I be better off starting with Halides? Why are they turning brown in natural light???
hamburglar
New member
Hey,
I'm looking for both bright colors, and better growth in sps. So far, I'm getting brown sps corals that do not grow. I'm not sure what i need exactly. I understand where you are going with the VHO's, but I think it is just as cost effective to step up to a halide. In my situation, I am only paying for a bulb and reflector. I swapped a bunch of corals for a used 400Watt balast and socket today.
I'm looking for both bright colors, and better growth in sps. So far, I'm getting brown sps corals that do not grow. I'm not sure what i need exactly. I understand where you are going with the VHO's, but I think it is just as cost effective to step up to a halide. In my situation, I am only paying for a bulb and reflector. I swapped a bunch of corals for a used 400Watt balast and socket today.
