Budget Greenhouse Project
- Thread starter hamburglar
- Start date
pnsnowboard
New member
interesting system
rustybucket145
New member
I can understand that. Do you think that it is the light turning the sps brown? Why would natural sunlight turn them brown and not let them grow? Have you heard of anyone else having this problem? I just think that you might want to look at other possibilies such as Chemical Warfare between the soft corals and the SPS. Are you keeping any Sarcophytons or Zoanthids? I know there have been documented cases of these Soft Corals releasing 'toxins' into the water. These 'toxins' have been shown to have a VERY negative effect on some SPS corals. If I remember correctly some of the symptoms of this poisioning closely resembles what you are describing.
BrianPlankis
Premium Member
Very true about negative effect on some SPS, but it isn't limited to just SPS, can affect many other things as well, read the soft corals section of this article:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/cj/index.php
Brian
rustybucket145
New member
Good Article, Very Longwinded but informative. Yes that was the point that I was trying to make. I don't know for sure if hamburglar is keeping the two together or not but it was just something that came to my mind about the browning issue. I am also dealing with the issue of what exactly to grow in my greenhouse. I believe I am going to start with sarcophytons and xenia b/c of their popularity at the LFS that I will be primarily selling to in the begining. Then I plan on 'hopefully' letting the 'aggressive' system pay for another system devoted primarily to Acroporas and the like. I am just worried that it is the light causing the browning and slow growth in hamburglars system. So I am curious as well if anyone else has experience with this issue. It would not be cost effective (in my mind) to have a greenhouse and have to light it. Kinda defeats the purpose of a greenhouse.
hamburglar
New member
I have met another local coral farmer with the same problem. he has a a system with SPS only. He has recently installed 20,000K 400Watt Halides. I will report on his changes as soon as he shares the information with me. He would probably share his info on Reef Central but he keeps getting banned fro the site. I guess he bumps heads with the wrong people. Dag on shame since he had lots of experience, and 30 to 40 thousand dollars in his greenhouse.
I have a few Zoanthids (handfull), Xenia, finger leathers, and mushroom in the same system. All of these corals came from my indoor system where they live well together.
I'm still on my business trip in freaking California. I can't wait to get home and hang my halide. Everything should be there and waiting on me. I will try to get it done this weekend.
I have a few Zoanthids (handfull), Xenia, finger leathers, and mushroom in the same system. All of these corals came from my indoor system where they live well together.
I'm still on my business trip in freaking California. I can't wait to get home and hang my halide. Everything should be there and waiting on me. I will try to get it done this weekend.
rustybucket145
New member
Well Good Luck, I hope the halides work out for you and the SPS. So all the softies are doing well in the greenhouse? Good growth/color?
Wonder if the Greenhouse panels are blocking out a certain spectrum/color of light that promotes coloration in SPS's?
Wonder if the Greenhouse panels are blocking out a certain spectrum/color of light that promotes coloration in SPS's?
hamburglar
New member
I wonder about the polycarb also. Softies do quite well. I will post results after a little while. This thread will be updated for at least another year.
pvtschultz
New member
First off, you are a pioneer of sorts, great thread. Browning out is to expected I would have to say and could be the result of 5500K sun light hitting the corals and not the 10,000K-15,000K light of your tank and in the deeper waters of the ocean. A good idea might be to grow out your corals in the green house and then move them indoors for a few weeks to color them up before you sell them. This will serve two purposes: 1) Get their color back obviously for better sales prices, 2) Get them used to indoor lighting again before you sell them so they adapt more readily for any customers that you have. One more thought that I had, instead of adding a geo-loop, why not install a couple 55 gal plastic drums in your basement (if you southern boys have them) and then connect that to your system. This will add about 100 gallons to the system and give you more thermal stability. Also, you can use the more constant temperature of your house to heat/cool the tank.
I skimmed through the last couple of pages to post, but are you having any troubles with the general lack of nutrients and the growth of soft corals?
Again, keep up the updates and post pics when you can.
I skimmed through the last couple of pages to post, but are you having any troubles with the general lack of nutrients and the growth of soft corals?
Again, keep up the updates and post pics when you can.
justincognito
New member
Great thread, in fact i just set up the same greenhouse. I think I'm going to take out the south facing panels and replace them with a UV transmisive poly. This should help with color.
justincognito
New member
Great thread, in fact i just set up the same greenhouse. I think I'm going to take out the south facing panels and replace them with a UV transmisive poly. This should help with color.
justincognito
New member
Great thread, in fact i just set up the same greenhouse. I think I'm going to take out the south facing panels and replace them with a UV transmisive poly. This should help with color.
justincognito
New member
did i repeat myself?
hamburglar,
Very nice thread, between you and Rick there are some really great things going on with coral farming. I have been doing some research for my marine biology degree and a business plan that I just finished for the same sort of thing on a larger scale. I think there are a couple of things that I have found both from Ricks "real world studies", and from my own studies.
Without getting into too much detail here is a real brief idea, if you want more of the background information let me know:
1. Corals light needs are different from plants in that they need light outside the PAR spectrum to create pigments that make up the pretty colors we like to see, especially the fluorescent colors. Most greenhouse coverings (the poly sheet AND poly films) are designed to remove these light frequencies because they are damaging to the plants. This is why you need to then put them under lights to "color them up". If you decide to change your covering make sure that you get a covering that lets light in from the 385-410 wavelengths, but blocks everything below 365 because these are the damaging ones. Watch out for full UV transmission as this would end up worse because the ones I have seen go all the way down to the bottom of the UVA. There are only two coverings that I have found that hit hit just below 385 and still block below 365. One is by KLERKS and even comes in a blue tint so you can better simulate the middle of the spectrum, and the other is wayyy to expensive to be worth it. There may be others but most are blocking below 410. Rick is using the clear Klerks and seems to be having good success
2. pvtschultz hit the second part just about right. Because the strongest light is in the UVA-Violet spectrum, when we measure the sunlight against the light from MH's the films are oversaturating the 540-620 (plants highest needs) to make up for the loss in the high energy spectrum (385-410)comparatively. This causes it to look like we are getting the right amount of light across the whole light specturm but it is actually not the right wavelengths and the corals are both still hungry for light and burning at the same time. The brownish color is is a combination of the symbionts changing to both protect themselves and to use more of the light available to grow.
There are a couple of other things but they get more in depth and would be better put into other threads. I just thought these were pretty greenhouse specific.
Very nice thread, between you and Rick there are some really great things going on with coral farming. I have been doing some research for my marine biology degree and a business plan that I just finished for the same sort of thing on a larger scale. I think there are a couple of things that I have found both from Ricks "real world studies", and from my own studies.
Without getting into too much detail here is a real brief idea, if you want more of the background information let me know:
1. Corals light needs are different from plants in that they need light outside the PAR spectrum to create pigments that make up the pretty colors we like to see, especially the fluorescent colors. Most greenhouse coverings (the poly sheet AND poly films) are designed to remove these light frequencies because they are damaging to the plants. This is why you need to then put them under lights to "color them up". If you decide to change your covering make sure that you get a covering that lets light in from the 385-410 wavelengths, but blocks everything below 365 because these are the damaging ones. Watch out for full UV transmission as this would end up worse because the ones I have seen go all the way down to the bottom of the UVA. There are only two coverings that I have found that hit hit just below 385 and still block below 365. One is by KLERKS and even comes in a blue tint so you can better simulate the middle of the spectrum, and the other is wayyy to expensive to be worth it. There may be others but most are blocking below 410. Rick is using the clear Klerks and seems to be having good success
2. pvtschultz hit the second part just about right. Because the strongest light is in the UVA-Violet spectrum, when we measure the sunlight against the light from MH's the films are oversaturating the 540-620 (plants highest needs) to make up for the loss in the high energy spectrum (385-410)comparatively. This causes it to look like we are getting the right amount of light across the whole light specturm but it is actually not the right wavelengths and the corals are both still hungry for light and burning at the same time. The brownish color is is a combination of the symbionts changing to both protect themselves and to use more of the light available to grow.
There are a couple of other things but they get more in depth and would be better put into other threads. I just thought these were pretty greenhouse specific.
rustybucket145
New member
raaden: Does Klerks have a website? Where could one purchase these panels?
rustybucket,
They can be found at Klerks website . The film you are looking for is the KoolLite 380. Right now it is only available as a film and not in the PC panels. Additionally the blue version of this film will not be available, from what I can tell, until closer to the start of summer.
Unable to find right now the greenhouse suppliers site that had much more information about the films, but Klerks is one of the best suppliers and would be a special order at most shops. I know that Atlas carries their products.
They can be found at Klerks website . The film you are looking for is the KoolLite 380. Right now it is only available as a film and not in the PC panels. Additionally the blue version of this film will not be available, from what I can tell, until closer to the start of summer.
Unable to find right now the greenhouse suppliers site that had much more information about the films, but Klerks is one of the best suppliers and would be a special order at most shops. I know that Atlas carries their products.
rustybucket145
New member
There are no prices that I could find on the site. Do they sell directly to the public or to you have to go through a retailer?
Klerks does not sell directly to the public, but most greenhouse dealers do sell Klerks products. The ones that I have contacted do not "stock" the KoolLite film but have said they can order it. I was only able to get a price from one and it was more expensive that other films but for the performance I believe it is worth it. The others said they could get me a cost once I placed an order for it. Strange customer service if you ask me...
Treeman
New member
Read this thread before you go out and buy the koolite.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=705495
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=705495
Treeman,
That is a very interesting thread, I posted some questions there, I hope Anthony and yourself can help me understand a bit more.
I am glad I have not ordered yet, may I ask what film you have purchased or are looking to purchase, and maybe a little info as to why you decided on that film.
thanx
That is a very interesting thread, I posted some questions there, I hope Anthony and yourself can help me understand a bit more.
I am glad I have not ordered yet, may I ask what film you have purchased or are looking to purchase, and maybe a little info as to why you decided on that film.
thanx
