Build Questions - BeanAnimal Style

[blue736]

Hello,

Thinking about changing up my current system. I have a spare 75g perfecto tank that I want to drill. Need some advice on how you would do it!

Would like to drill the 75g back and put in a BeanAnimal overflow with either a coast-to-coast or smaller (centered) overflow box. Leaning to the c2c. Where should the bulkhead holes be placed at? Spread out along the c2c or together in the center?

I am building a new acrylic sump to go underneath, and want to route the pipes correctly. Can do: Inlet --> Return <-- Fuge setup. My concerns are wouldn't the pipe bends under the stand to the sump, mess up the open channel design and make it noisy? Ideally the emergency pipe should dump into the return section to make noise. How would I route the open & closed channel pipes to the inlet and fuge sections? Connecting those two pipes would defeat the purpose right?

Lastly, I have lots of 1.5" pvc piping, fittings, and gate valves. Have some 1" pipe. Should I go with 1.5" bulkheads or 1". Have a mag9 pump, so approx. 900gph turnover. Calculator here says I would need 1.25" pipe. That is for one pipe right?

Thanks

 

[smb2415]

It does not matter where the overflows are located within the overflow box. That said it is important that the full siphon elbow be 1" from the bottom of overflow box. the partial siphon elbow should be about 1/2 to 1" above that. The emergency elbow should be turned upwards yet still be about 1" below the top of the weir. All pipes should be run as straight as poss without any tees and ideally without any other 45 or 90s. the pipes should end no more than 1-2" below the sump normal water level.

Personally, I would place the overflows together and where it is convenient for sump, access, etc.

Yes, pipe bends will effect the design. not necessarily noisy but you may have trouble getting the siphon to start properly.

No, you should not connect the overflow pipe to the fuge. You would run each overflow pipe to directly sump. Then you could either: use a separate pump for fuge (preferred), use gravity to feed fuge from sump (ideal), tie in fuge to main return pump (last option).

As for pipe size, 1.5" is rather bulky for a tank your size and will certainly eat up a lot of space with an internal overflow box. I think you'd be fine with 1". however yes, the calculator is showing 1.25" per pipe, and that would meet your needs however is more difficult to find. If you decide to go with 1" make sure you layout, size, and drill the holes to accommodate a 1.5" pipe should you find you need it. Most people it seems opt for the 1.5" pipe.

 

[gaberosenfield]

Definitely check out the original beananimal safe and silent overflow thread if you haven't already. I have seen both setups you mention as far as hole placement with a coast to coast. I don't think it matters if you spread out the holes horizontally over the back of the tank or put them closer together when using a full coast to coast.

They also address the question of how to plumb in a fuge section with the beananimal overflow style on the original thread. If I remember correctly, the best way is to just plumb the open channel in to the fuge section since this line shouldn't have very much flow during normal operation. Plumb the siphon and emergency sections into the inlet/skimmer section of the sump. Do NOT connect any of the three drain lines from a beananimal overflow. The orientation of inlet/skimmer section, fuge, and return you laid out is a popular one.

According to BeanAnimal on the original thread about his overflow setup, a 1 inch full siphon can handle nearly 2000 gph (I think it was a little less than that), so 1 inch should be enough for 900 gph. That said, it never hurts to go bigger and give yourself room for more flow/disaster prevention. Maybe go with a 1 inch siphon and open channel and a 1.5 inch emergency drain? It probably doesn't matter much if you only plan on having 900 gph through the system.

 

[blue736]

Thanks for the help guys. I am re-reading through Bean's thread... wish he would repost it with all the compiled info in it. Hundreds of pages of useless comments (flames etc) gets overwhelming while picking out the good info needed!

Thinking I will go with sch 80 gate valve instead of the ball valve. Should be easier to manage adjustments. Will be doing threaded connections this time. I hate wasting fittings when mistakes are made.

Can I use sch80 gate valve + 2 male threaded x slip adapters with the rest being sch40? I think the pipe should glue up to the sch80 fittings without a problem.

 

[mcgyvr]

You really don't need gate valves.. cheaper ball valves work just fine.. you only need 1 valve on the full siphon channel and once its set its basically forget it.
A straight drop right into the sump will be a bit quieter but not a problem at all if you don't and it can still be dead quiet. Each pipe should be its own run right into the sump.. Don't tie them together anywhere.

With a 75G all you need is 1" piping/bulkheads across the board.. no need for 1.5" anything.

The only problem I've had with regards to placement in the overflow is that there is (was) an almost stagnant section furthest away from my full channel (with a 48" long coast-coast)
But now that I've switched to the DC12000 vs the blowhole 1450 pump and all the flow it gives that stagnant section is gone..
Put full channel right in the center.. and emerg and secondary on each side.

Also make sure the edge of the overflow is perfectly level so the water cascades over the whole length vs one "lower" side.


and yes I can't stand the "go read the 800 page post" reply that people give around here.. The biggest area for improvement with this site would be moderators actively updating additional sticky posts or just cleaning up the big ones to weed out all the other "drama".. Just so many of the same questions over and over again.. But thats understandable because I/most others don't have the time to read through some 800 page post to find proper answers hidden in the haystack.

 

[uncleof6]

Definitely check out the original beananimal safe and silent overflow thread if you haven't already. I have seen both setups you mention as far as hole placement with a coast to coast. I don't think it matters if you spread out the holes horizontally over the back of the tank or put them closer together when using a full coast to coast.

They also address the question of how to plumb in a fuge section with the beananimal overflow style on the original thread. If I remember correctly, the best way is to just plumb the open channel in to the fuge section since this line shouldn't have very much flow during normal operation. Plumb the siphon and emergency sections into the inlet/skimmer section of the sump. Do NOT connect any of the three drain lines from a beananimal overflow. The orientation of inlet/skimmer section, fuge, and return you laid out is a popular one.

According to BeanAnimal on the original thread about his overflow setup, a 1 inch full siphon can handle nearly 2000 gph (I think it was a little less than that), so 1 inch should be enough for 900 gph. That said, it never hurts to go bigger and give yourself room for more flow/disaster prevention. Maybe go with a 1 inch siphon and open channel and a 1.5 inch emergency drain? It probably doesn't matter much if you only plan on having 900 gph through the system.

With the system adjusted properly, there is not enough flow through the open channel to feed a fuge. Due to the interaction between the siphon and open channel, both pipe outlets should be in the same body of water, just as the inlets must be in the same body of water. Deviations from the original design (as I just described) are what causes the problems with this drain system.

Optimally, the standpipes should be side by side. I can't think of a good VALID reason to spread them out.

Feed the fuge from a branch in the return line, and save yourself the headaches. A fuge needs higher flow than the misinformation would have folks believe.

 

[smb2415]

+1 Uncleof6

Yes you can mix sch40 and sch80.

one tip I read and wish I read earlier.
use silicone or wrap Teflon tape around the edge of the slip fittings inside the overflow box. It will make a good seal and allow you to easily disassemble and/or cleanout later on down the road.

I also, happily, followed the recommendations to not run filter socks on the overflow pipes. I have already had a few fish take the water slide and they all survived unscathed. If there was a filter sock, they would have likely have been found dead.

 

[uncleof6]

+1 Uncleof6

Yes you can mix sch40 and sch80.

one tip I read and wish I read earlier.
use silicone or wrap Teflon tape around the edge of the slip fittings inside the overflow box. It will make a good seal and allow you to easily disassemble and/or cleanout later on down the road.

I also, happily, followed the recommendations to not run filter socks on the overflow pipes. I have already had a few fish take the water slide and they all survived unscathed. If there was a filter sock, they would have likely have been found dead.

Actually, you can mix sch80 and sch40 socket fittings, but it is not advised to mix sch80 and sch40 threaded fittings. In our tanks/systems sch80 is completely uncalled for, and does not offer any advantage over sch40.

Teflon tape is made for metal pipe to prevent thread galling, and it is not recommended for use on plastic threaded fittings. Just about everyone gets this wrong, including so called Master Plumbers....

This information comes from the fitting manufacuterers themselves: both Lasco and Sprears to name the two largest.

What is appropriate for pvc threaded fittings is a non-hardening thread sealant. Nothing containing teflon is recommended for plastic fittings as lubrication is not needed or desireable with plastic fittings.

You can find this information on both Lasco's and Sprears websites. Sorry I can't find the link.

 

[blue736]

The only reason I was going to use sch80 was for the gate valve. Never seen a sch40 one, only the ball/tru union valves. They are real hard to turn, and I fear breaking the glass around the bulkhead(s).

 

[Scodiddy]

Don't want to hijack your thread but I have a very similar question. I have a new 220 I'm getting ready to drill for beananimal as well. My plan is to use 1 1/2" pipe, but should I use the 1 1/2" bulkheads or should I use the 1" bulkheads like bean did. I know that some people have an issue with the overall size of the 1 1/2" and go with the 1" so their overflow doesn't have to go so low in the tank. I think logistically the 1 1/2 is obviously better. Any input or suggestions would be greatly appreciated guys. Thanks a lot!

 

[Mrramsey]

Don't want to hijack your thread but I have a very similar question. I have a new 220 I'm getting ready to drill for beananimal as well. My plan is to use 1 1/2" pipe, but should I use the 1 1/2" bulkheads or should I use the 1" bulkheads like bean did. I know that some people have an issue with the overall size of the 1 1/2" and go with the 1" so their overflow doesn't have to go so low in the tank. I think logistically the 1 1/2 is obviously better. Any input or suggestions would be greatly appreciated guys. Thanks a lot!

That would depend on what flow rate you are trying to achieve. The system as designed can handle 2000-2400gph. If you are wanting more flow then the only option is to go larger else the 1" bulkheads are fine.

 

[KSU_WILDCAT]

So you are telling me that you can run 2000-2400 gph thru 1.5" line necked down with a 1" bulkhead?

 

[uncleof6]

So you are telling me that you can run 2000-2400 gph thru 1.5" line necked down with a 1" bulkhead?

No you really can't, well it depends on the length of the drop actually. With a 24" drop, the best you can expect is ~1500 gph using a 1" bulkhead and 1.5" pipe. All 1" would drop down to around 1200 gph. With a 5 - 6 foot drop, yeah, 2000 gph + is doable. As designed, originally, this system tops out at ~1500 gph. This is based on a simplified application of Bernoulli's equation (lacking an accounting for the ACTUAL inside diameter of the oriface, (smaller than 1" w/sch80 being the worst) viscosity, ambient pressure, temperature, jupiter aligning with mars, and friction loss...the above numbers however do account for the friction loss, the results of the calculation is actually 1660 gph.)

Generally however, for the average system, if you want to go past 1500 gph you need to up the bulkheads to 1.5".

Drain flow rates are meaningless without a head height specification to go along with it. Without that head height, the number is far too vague and usually pretty far off.

And no, you are not going to get close using a durso

 

[KSU_WILDCAT]

Ok thanks for the info. What is everybody thoughts on this....I have a new DSA 225 pro with 3 1" drains. Obviously it is drilled on the bottom and the plan was to run a bean animal with flow somewhere around 2000 gph. I plan on running all 1.5" pvc prior to 1" bulkhead and 1.5" after.
First Question: Can I run an effective bean animal with the elbows on top of a 27" standpipe (height of tank)? Bulkhead on tank bottom. Hope that make sense?. Never seen any pictures of it so not sure it will work.
2nd: Can I run 2000 gph with this setup? Sump is directly below tank and stand height is 36 in. My plan is to run 1.5" vinyl tubing to reduce 90's. downstream of the bulkhead to sump.
Please give me some feedback on this. Thanks

 

[uncleof6]

Ok thanks for the info. What is everybody thoughts on this....I have a new DSA 225 pro with 3 1" drains. Obviously it is drilled on the bottom and the plan was to run a bean animal with flow somewhere around 2000 gph. I plan on running all 1.5" pvc prior to 1" bulkhead and 1.5" after.
First Question: Can I run an effective bean animal with the elbows on top of a 27" standpipe (height of tank)? Bulkhead on tank bottom. Hope that make sense?. Never seen any pictures of it so not sure it will work.
2nd: Can I run 2000 gph with this setup? Sump is directly below tank and stand height is 36 in. My plan is to run 1.5" vinyl tubing to reduce 90's. downstream of the bulkhead to sump.
Please give me some feedback on this. Thanks

Standpipe height is irrelevent.

Measure water level in the tank to water level in the sump. (actually water level in the overflow.) The rest is irrelevent. 1" bulkhead with a 24" drop will not go above 1500 gph, regardless of pipe size... if you are over that, what is the drop? 36" 48" ??

For a 225 as a matter of course, I would run 1.5" bulkheads, and 1.5" pipe and push 2200 gph... or better. Bottom drilled tanks suck big time, when trying to work with a siphon system (pre-drilled that is) and bottom drilling a tank that is not already drilled is a waste...

Because barb fittngs are way restrictive, you are better off with hard pipe, and don't use 90s. Have not yet seen a system that cannot be run with 45s, and if you can't swing it, redesign the setup so you can use 45s.