I have not posted before and am 100% brand new to setting up a saltwater aquarium. I have a 40 gallon breeder aquarium and have in mind to buy a trigger systems emerald 34 sump. I would like to copy episode 6 in the "how to start a saltwater aquarium" BRS series, where I use the same Herbie method and overflow box, as well as the same return method. It's a great video, except I don't know what all of the plumbing pieces are or what sizes I should get to copy it. Can someone please help...maybe even Ryan from BRS? I heard he's on this site, too. Thanks in advance...and I hope I posted this in the correct section...new to forums as well.
bulk reef supply copy plumbing
- Thread starter Grizzlor
- Start date
OnceTrueFalseBr
New member
Is the tank bottom tempered glass?
uncleof6
Active member
The bottom may or may not be tempered, however, the back panel is not tempered.
It is going to be far more efficient and functional to drill out the back of the tank, put in a C2C overflow, and a BA system. Simply put, bottom drilled tanks are deprecated for performance systems whether for 1st timers or experienced aquarists. Although I don't see the need for a siphon system (either Herbie or BA) on a 40 breeder tank, (the flow rate will likely be within durso laminar flow limits) it is going to be more advantageous to learn the best methods to do something, on a small tank, before the inevitable move to a larger system in 6 mos or so... (a backhanded way of saying make your first SW setup something like a 120gallon, something you will have a hard time outgrowing in a relatively short time. Use the 40 breeder for a sump.)
It is going to be far more efficient and functional to drill out the back of the tank, put in a C2C overflow, and a BA system. Simply put, bottom drilled tanks are deprecated for performance systems whether for 1st timers or experienced aquarists. Although I don't see the need for a siphon system (either Herbie or BA) on a 40 breeder tank, (the flow rate will likely be within durso laminar flow limits) it is going to be more advantageous to learn the best methods to do something, on a small tank, before the inevitable move to a larger system in 6 mos or so... (a backhanded way of saying make your first SW setup something like a 120gallon, something you will have a hard time outgrowing in a relatively short time. Use the 40 breeder for a sump.)
I am putting this tank in my bedroom and so I want it to be as quiet as possible. From what Bulk Reef Supply says, the Herbie method is by far the quietest. Regarding a large tank, space doesn't allow it at the time. I just need to know the plumbing used and sizes used...and sizes of drilled holes, etc.
I am putting this tank in my bedroom and so I want it to be as quiet as possible. From what Bulk Reef Supply says, the Herbie method is by far the quietest. Regarding a large tank, space doesn't allow it at the time. I just need to know the plumbing used and sizes used...and sizes of drilled holes, etc.
SGT_York
New member
A herbie is very easy to do and dead silent, it however takes up a lot of space in the display and doesn't clean as well as a coast to coast overflow (by clean I mean surface skimming) A bean animal is just as silent as a herbie, is less likely to overflow (both systems are safe) and cleans better, it looks complicated but is actually easier to do than a built from scratch herbie.
Also there is a significant chance your bottom is tempered which will require you to do a bean anyway.
Having done both I highly recommend a Bean Animal unless you buy a pre drilled tank.
Also there is a significant chance your bottom is tempered which will require you to do a bean anyway.
Having done both I highly recommend a Bean Animal unless you buy a pre drilled tank.
woodnaquanut
Active member
Perhaps you should contact BRS about this. No one here can tell you exactly what BRS used. All we have is the same video you are seeing.
uncleof6
Active member
The video on adding a sump? Yeah..., I give them credit for starting to head in the right direction, however, a few things amiss:
It does not matter in the least which direction bulkheads are installed in the tank; the only requirement is that the gasket be on the flange side of the bulkhead.
For the very reasons they state, "raising the water level," you don't want teeth on your overflow. By raising the water level behind the weir, more subsurface water flows into the overflow, and less surface water (the organic laden layer.) You want as thin of a water layer possible going over the weir. Teeth do not keep critters out of your overflow. Teeth channel the flow, which creates noise.
A small overflow is a disadvantage in terms of the overall system. The move is to very long (full width) overflows that make for far superior surface skimming/surface renewal, which is the whole point of an overflow. One of the biggest issues with RR tanks is the small corner overflows, with teeth.
Never use a check valve, and although the check valve in the video is one of the better designs, the failure rate is still 100%. Flood prevention is done using empty volume in the sump, and a return system that cannot be "bumped" below 1" under the water surface. E.G. loc-line is a hobby toy, and does nothing but restrict your return flow.
Siphon systems are silent. Siphon systems are silent because there is no air allowed into the main drain (otherwise it would be a durso.) However, Herbie's modification is not the only siphon system, there are two: Herbie and BA. Herbie may be ultra silent, (or whatever branding they were trying to place on it,) but it is not stable; (they did not claim it was the quietest.) The "Herbie" as been subjected to forumization, which has resulted in "self adjustment" taken from Bean's design, however this completely short-circuits the safety backup, rendering the system unsafe. BA is also ultra quiet, but it is also ultra stable, and safer. Herbie is/was intended as a modification to allow the installation of a siphon system in a bottom drilled corner overflow. That is the extent of it. The system itself was in use long before Herbie popularized his modification.
The current wisdom is moving to long overflows (C2C,) back drilled tanks, and performance siphon systems, moving past the limitations of RR tanks and dursos, that have been the standard for so many years. If building a custom overflow/drain system, there is no "excuse" to step down to two holes for a "Herbie" when the "better system" uses three, the "better system" is more stable, the "better system" is safer. You have to punch two holes through the back anyway, a third for the return, if you think it is wise to run the return through a bulkhead (more RR thinking.) There is really no point in not drilling the fourth. There also is not really a point to using a small inefficient overflow either.
That said, with a siphon system, 1" bulkheads and pipe will net you 1200gph+, 1" bulkhead with 1.5" pipe will net you ~1500gph, considerably more the closer the drop gets to 36" and beyond. 3/4" is too small, and too easily plugged; the friction losses in 3/4" pipe are excessive. What sizes BRS used is rather irrelevant actually, as copying the design is selling yourself short. There is enough information in Bean's thread, and several other threads for you to absorb and build a custom system that is far more efficient.
The 40 breeder is a borderline tank size. If you are going to push it to 400gph and higher, there would be a good advantage to using a siphon system. On the other hand, if doing what is "common" you will be flowing under 350gph, which a single 1.5" durso will handle quietly, and the siphon system is really overkill. As far as the overflow itself, you are well advised to make it as long as possible, regardless of the type of drain system used.
It does not matter in the least which direction bulkheads are installed in the tank; the only requirement is that the gasket be on the flange side of the bulkhead.
For the very reasons they state, "raising the water level," you don't want teeth on your overflow. By raising the water level behind the weir, more subsurface water flows into the overflow, and less surface water (the organic laden layer.) You want as thin of a water layer possible going over the weir. Teeth do not keep critters out of your overflow. Teeth channel the flow, which creates noise.
A small overflow is a disadvantage in terms of the overall system. The move is to very long (full width) overflows that make for far superior surface skimming/surface renewal, which is the whole point of an overflow. One of the biggest issues with RR tanks is the small corner overflows, with teeth.
Never use a check valve, and although the check valve in the video is one of the better designs, the failure rate is still 100%. Flood prevention is done using empty volume in the sump, and a return system that cannot be "bumped" below 1" under the water surface. E.G. loc-line is a hobby toy, and does nothing but restrict your return flow.
Siphon systems are silent. Siphon systems are silent because there is no air allowed into the main drain (otherwise it would be a durso.) However, Herbie's modification is not the only siphon system, there are two: Herbie and BA. Herbie may be ultra silent, (or whatever branding they were trying to place on it,) but it is not stable; (they did not claim it was the quietest.) The "Herbie" as been subjected to forumization, which has resulted in "self adjustment" taken from Bean's design, however this completely short-circuits the safety backup, rendering the system unsafe. BA is also ultra quiet, but it is also ultra stable, and safer. Herbie is/was intended as a modification to allow the installation of a siphon system in a bottom drilled corner overflow. That is the extent of it. The system itself was in use long before Herbie popularized his modification.
The current wisdom is moving to long overflows (C2C,) back drilled tanks, and performance siphon systems, moving past the limitations of RR tanks and dursos, that have been the standard for so many years. If building a custom overflow/drain system, there is no "excuse" to step down to two holes for a "Herbie" when the "better system" uses three, the "better system" is more stable, the "better system" is safer. You have to punch two holes through the back anyway, a third for the return, if you think it is wise to run the return through a bulkhead (more RR thinking.) There is really no point in not drilling the fourth. There also is not really a point to using a small inefficient overflow either.
That said, with a siphon system, 1" bulkheads and pipe will net you 1200gph+, 1" bulkhead with 1.5" pipe will net you ~1500gph, considerably more the closer the drop gets to 36" and beyond. 3/4" is too small, and too easily plugged; the friction losses in 3/4" pipe are excessive. What sizes BRS used is rather irrelevant actually, as copying the design is selling yourself short. There is enough information in Bean's thread, and several other threads for you to absorb and build a custom system that is far more efficient.
The 40 breeder is a borderline tank size. If you are going to push it to 400gph and higher, there would be a good advantage to using a siphon system. On the other hand, if doing what is "common" you will be flowing under 350gph, which a single 1.5" durso will handle quietly, and the siphon system is really overkill. As far as the overflow itself, you are well advised to make it as long as possible, regardless of the type of drain system used.
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Dapg8gt
New member
I think you have some sound advice in this thread especially every thing uncleof6 has mentioned, running plumbing is specific to each tank/stand That's something that you would need to research yourself, either just by looking at pictures/videos or on brs's website for the types of parts they sell. The video tells you what you need if I'm remembering it right..
What I will tell you is you will be using sch40 pvc either 3/4" or 1" and numerous fittings of 90 degrees, 45 degrees bulkheads etc.. Every tank is plumbed differently so someone really isn't there to tell you what you need..it's really not hard to find the info for your situation you just need to look at others pictures/videos and get the parts. Knowing the basics on how to work with pvc is something you will also need to learn.
What I will tell you is you will be using sch40 pvc either 3/4" or 1" and numerous fittings of 90 degrees, 45 degrees bulkheads etc.. Every tank is plumbed differently so someone really isn't there to tell you what you need..it's really not hard to find the info for your situation you just need to look at others pictures/videos and get the parts. Knowing the basics on how to work with pvc is something you will also need to learn.
MidwesternTexan
Average Joe
I have a 40b (sitting empty in my basemet atm),
and it has 2 x 1" bulkheads in the bottom.
I had thought therefore most all 40b are not tempered bottom?
Good info here, I agree the upper c2c, and a 3drain/BA system.
and it has 2 x 1" bulkheads in the bottom.
I had thought therefore most all 40b are not tempered bottom?
Good info here, I agree the upper c2c, and a 3drain/BA system.
RobinsonFam1
New member
drilled from factory can be tempered after the drilling is done. if you choose to build your own tank you can do the same.
years back before all the glass tank co's changed names/ownership most tanks were not tempered. now it seems the opposite. you need to inspect the glass before drilling/cutting if unsure.
mandarin417
New member
Hey uncleof6 - what alternative do you recommend other than running the returns through a bulkhead in the glass? Thanks, Bob
RobinsonFam1
New member
ill jump in on this one: you only have one other option......over the top rim of the tank....this provides limitless options though as far as the outlets and directions. spray bars, manifolds, singles, etc....
PufferGhoti
New member
The video on adding a sump? Yeah..., I give them credit for starting to head in the right direction, however, a few things amiss:
It does not matter in the least which direction bulkheads are installed in the tank; the only requirement is that the gasket be on the flange side of the bulkhead.
For the very reasons they state, "raising the water level," you don't want teeth on your overflow. By raising the water level behind the weir, more subsurface water flows into the overflow, and less surface water (the organic laden layer.) You want as thin of a water layer possible going over the weir. Teeth do not keep critters out of your overflow. Teeth channel the flow, which creates noise.
A small overflow is a disadvantage in terms of the overall system. The move is to very long (full width) overflows that make for far superior surface skimming/surface renewal, which is the whole point of an overflow. One of the biggest issues with RR tanks is the small corner overflows, with teeth.
Never use a check valve, and although the check valve in the video is one of the better designs, the failure rate is still 100%. Flood prevention is done using empty volume in the sump, and a return system that cannot be "bumped" below 1" under the water surface. E.G. loc-line is a hobby toy, and does nothing but restrict your return flow.
Siphon systems are silent. Siphon systems are silent because there is no air allowed into the main drain (otherwise it would be a durso.) However, Herbie's modification is not the only siphon system, there are two: Herbie and BA. Herbie may be ultra silent, (or whatever branding they were trying to place on it,) but it is not stable; (they did not claim it was the quietest.) The "Herbie" as been subjected to forumization, which has resulted in "self adjustment" taken from Bean's design, however this completely short-circuits the safety backup, rendering the system unsafe. BA is also ultra quiet, but it is also ultra stable, and safer. Herbie is/was intended as a modification to allow the installation of a siphon system in a bottom drilled corner overflow. That is the extent of it. The system itself was in use long before Herbie popularized his modification.
The current wisdom is moving to long overflows (C2C,) back drilled tanks, and performance siphon systems, moving past the limitations of RR tanks and dursos, that have been the standard for so many years. If building a custom overflow/drain system, there is no "excuse" to step down to two holes for a "Herbie" when the "better system" uses three, the "better system" is more stable, the "better system" is safer. You have to punch two holes through the back anyway, a third for the return, if you think it is wise to run the return through a bulkhead (more RR thinking.) There is really no point in not drilling the fourth. There also is not really a point to using a small inefficient overflow either.
That said, with a siphon system, 1" bulkheads and pipe will net you 1200gph+, 1" bulkhead with 1.5" pipe will net you ~1500gph, considerably more the closer the drop gets to 36" and beyond. 3/4" is too small, and too easily plugged; the friction losses in 3/4" pipe are excessive. What sizes BRS used is rather irrelevant actually, as copying the design is selling yourself short. There is enough information in Bean's thread, and several other threads for you to absorb and build a custom system that is far more efficient.
The 40 breeder is a borderline tank size. If you are going to push it to 400gph and higher, there would be a good advantage to using a siphon system. On the other hand, if doing what is "common" you will be flowing under 350gph, which a single 1.5" durso will handle quietly, and the siphon system is really overkill. As far as the overflow itself, you are well advised to make it as long as possible, regardless of the type of drain system used.
thank you excellent post have been following site for over a year and my BA has not let me down
The durso works as well but noise is unimportant in the basement. succinct post covers most points..
Agreed a small overflow is a disadvantage in terms of the overall system. The move is to very long (full width) overflows that make for far superior surface skimming/surface renewal, which is the whole point of an overflow.
It does not matter in the least which direction bulkheads are installed in the tank; the only requirement is that the gasket be on the flange side of the bulkhead.
For the very reasons they state, "raising the water level," you don't want teeth on your overflow. By raising the water level behind the weir, more subsurface water flows into the overflow, and less surface water (the organic laden layer.) You want as thin of a water layer possible going over the weir. Teeth do not keep critters out of your overflow. Teeth channel the flow, which creates noise.
A small overflow is a disadvantage in terms of the overall system. The move is to very long (full width) overflows that make for far superior surface skimming/surface renewal, which is the whole point of an overflow. One of the biggest issues with RR tanks is the small corner overflows, with teeth.
Never use a check valve, and although the check valve in the video is one of the better designs, the failure rate is still 100%. Flood prevention is done using empty volume in the sump, and a return system that cannot be "bumped" below 1" under the water surface. E.G. loc-line is a hobby toy, and does nothing but restrict your return flow.
Siphon systems are silent. Siphon systems are silent because there is no air allowed into the main drain (otherwise it would be a durso.) However, Herbie's modification is not the only siphon system, there are two: Herbie and BA. Herbie may be ultra silent, (or whatever branding they were trying to place on it,) but it is not stable; (they did not claim it was the quietest.) The "Herbie" as been subjected to forumization, which has resulted in "self adjustment" taken from Bean's design, however this completely short-circuits the safety backup, rendering the system unsafe. BA is also ultra quiet, but it is also ultra stable, and safer. Herbie is/was intended as a modification to allow the installation of a siphon system in a bottom drilled corner overflow. That is the extent of it. The system itself was in use long before Herbie popularized his modification.
The current wisdom is moving to long overflows (C2C,) back drilled tanks, and performance siphon systems, moving past the limitations of RR tanks and dursos, that have been the standard for so many years. If building a custom overflow/drain system, there is no "excuse" to step down to two holes for a "Herbie" when the "better system" uses three, the "better system" is more stable, the "better system" is safer. You have to punch two holes through the back anyway, a third for the return, if you think it is wise to run the return through a bulkhead (more RR thinking.) There is really no point in not drilling the fourth. There also is not really a point to using a small inefficient overflow either.
That said, with a siphon system, 1" bulkheads and pipe will net you 1200gph+, 1" bulkhead with 1.5" pipe will net you ~1500gph, considerably more the closer the drop gets to 36" and beyond. 3/4" is too small, and too easily plugged; the friction losses in 3/4" pipe are excessive. What sizes BRS used is rather irrelevant actually, as copying the design is selling yourself short. There is enough information in Bean's thread, and several other threads for you to absorb and build a custom system that is far more efficient.
The 40 breeder is a borderline tank size. If you are going to push it to 400gph and higher, there would be a good advantage to using a siphon system. On the other hand, if doing what is "common" you will be flowing under 350gph, which a single 1.5" durso will handle quietly, and the siphon system is really overkill. As far as the overflow itself, you are well advised to make it as long as possible, regardless of the type of drain system used.
thank you excellent post have been following site for over a year and my BA has not let me down
The durso works as well but noise is unimportant in the basement. succinct post covers most points..
Agreed a small overflow is a disadvantage in terms of the overall system. The move is to very long (full width) overflows that make for far superior surface skimming/surface renewal, which is the whole point of an overflow.
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