burnt alk tips, what to do

[codydemmel4]

To be honest , I would just let it be. Its already stressed with the swings and clipping it now even if you could , would only make matters worse .
Just provide enough flow so as not to let algae settle in and keep it under observation.
Sometimes, doing nothing and keeping the oils and what not from our hands away from the tank helps a lot .

Regards,
Abhishek

thank you for your comment.

I am letitng it just be for now but I am clip them off in the next week or two if I do not see the tips getting better. Also wih the green slimer tips doing so badly, I think I am cut them now to hopefully let the rest of the slimer recover.

The tips on all of them seem to be "sliming" or something like that where it is burnt. is this normal?

 

[codydemmel4]

I assume since the inside of the mini colonies that got hit still have good color and PE that the coral is in good shape overall, just took a bad hit on most of the tips besides the ones at the bottom of the coral. The one Tenuis that got hit hard actually had really good PE coming out of the tips last night when the lights were off but has no PE during the day on the tips and continues to look like theyre sliming

 

[codydemmel4]

Does it make sense I would still be seeing signs of the alk swing?

I know it was a big jump from my normal 7.5-8 range to over 9.6-10 but it has been 3 weeks now and I am still throwing out corals almost everyday now that have had burnt tips but also recedding from the base too. I have a test going to triton which I hope gets there today to make sure it was just the alk swing and nothing else. I am still90% sure it is just because of the alk swing because my anemones, fish, LPS (torch and hammers) and 2-4 of the acros are doing good and showing good PE. However the other 50-60 frags/mini colonies I had are either completely dead and thrown away already or are struggling badly and I keep fragging them back every other day it seems like.

I also am getting some test frags tomorrow to see how they do since I now have my levels stable and I am testing alk and calc everyday.

 

[Geeray]

Does it make sense I would still be seeing signs of the alk swing?

I know it was a big jump from my normal 7.5-8 range to over 9.6-10 but it has been 3 weeks now and I am still throwing out corals almost everyday now that have had burnt tips but also recedding from the base too. I have a test going to triton which I hope gets there today to make sure it was just the alk swing and nothing else. I am still90% sure it is just because of the alk swing because my anemones, fish, LPS (torch and hammers) and 2-4 of the acros are doing good and showing good PE. However the other 50-60 frags/mini colonies I had are either completely dead and thrown away already or are struggling badly and I keep fragging them back every other day it seems like.

I also am getting some test frags tomorrow to see how they do since I now have my levels stable and I am testing alk and calc everyday.

It's certainly possible. If I were you I would leave your hands out of the tank and focus on stability. I'm sure picking up the frags and trimming them is irritating the acros even more.

Once an acro becomes irritated it can take months to recover unfortunately

 

[codydemmel4]

It's certainly possible. If I were you I would leave your hands out of the tank and focus on stability. I'm sure picking up the frags and trimming them is irritating the acros even more.

Once an acro becomes irritated it can take months to recover unfortunately

I have been trying to do that but also wanted to save as much as possible of the mini colonies/frags so I thought fragging the good parts would help but maybe not?

The alk leve has been stable at 8-8.3 for over 2 weeks now and the calc has been stable at 420-440. phosphates always read between 0.00-0.05 and nitrate is always between 2-5.

 

[Geeray]

I have been trying to do that but also wanted to save as much as possible of the mini colonies/frags so I thought fragging the good parts would help but maybe not?

The alk leve has been stable at 8-8.3 for over 2 weeks now and the calc has been stable at 420-440. phosphates always read between 0.00-0.05 and nitrate is always between 2-5.

I understand why your doing it but sometimes handling them can cause more harm then good that's all.

 

[codydemmel4]

I understand why your doing it but sometimes handling them can cause more harm then good that's all.

yup just hard to watch it all die and not do anything. However I think it will be a lot easier once I get these test frags tomorrow, I will at least hopefully have some bright spots in the tank then.

If they decline once they get into my tank then I know it is something else then just the stability and alk burn, I will have to dig deeper into water clarity, metals but I searched everything I could already and didnt find anything. I also have my triton test that is being sent over to germany now so that should give me some answers too hopefully.

 

[bshow24]

yup just hard to watch it all die and not do anything. However I think it will be a lot easier once I get these test frags tomorrow, I will at least hopefully have some bright spots in the tank then.

If they decline once they get into my tank then I know it is something else then just the stability and alk burn, I will have to dig deeper into water clarity, metals but I searched everything I could already and didnt find anything. I also have my triton test that is being sent over to germany now so that should give me some answers too hopefully.

I know from your tank build you moved recently and transferred items, but was the rock work all new? If so, did you cycle it beforehand?

I figure the corals are the result of the alk swing, they just never fully recovered and sometimes it takes time for them to actually die off, but figure we can cover all bases just in case

 

[codydemmel4]

I know from your tank build you moved recently and transferred items, but was the rock work all new? If so, did you cycle it beforehand?

I figure the corals are the result of the alk swing, they just never fully recovered and sometimes it takes time for them to actually die off, but figure we can cover all bases just in case

Yeah the rock work was all new in the DT but I transferred at least 40 pounds of the exisiting live rock and had it in the sump to help speed up the cycle. I left the frags in an old tank with the majority of the old rock till the exisiting tank cycled so I do not think that had a big thing to do with it as they were in this new setup for over 2 months before this disaster hit :headwalls:

Just stinks that one swing can mess up everything for so long. Well I went home today for lunch and some of the pieces that I did not have PE on since, actually have good PE in the middle of the corals so I am hoping they can at least somewhat recover. I do not think I am going to cut anymore pieces, I am just going to let them be. Either they recover or the whole coral dies because I do think me putting my hands in there and moving them to frag them is possibly making it worse.

 

[bshow24]

Well it could be a combination of it being a "new tank", sort of, in addition to the Alk Swing. But I'd just leave it and hope they make it back.

I've gotten to the point with my corals sometimes where I literally stop looking at them, because I know it's the best thing I can do.

 

[jda]

The one swing most likely did this, but it was not alone... just the final blow. Fresh tanks make SPS frags somewhat unstable all by themselves. Then, you throw in a specific bad event and it might wreak havoc where frags in a more stable situation might be able to weather the first alk swing. Unfortunately, SPS frags (especially acropora) in a tank less than a year*** are really fragile even if you do everything right. They get easier as time goes on.

Don't be discouraged... this is all part of getting a mature tank.

*** The year timetable is not an absolute, but having sponges on the dark sides of all of your rock and coralline everywhere is a pretty good place to be before you can expect the most-healthy acropora. This usually takes about a year unless the tank has a ton of dry rock and then it can take longer.

 

[bshow24]

The one swing most likely did this, but it was not alone... just the final blow. Fresh tanks make SPS frags somewhat unstable all by themselves. Then, you throw in a specific bad event and it might wreak havoc where frags in a more stable situation might be able to weather the first alk swing. Unfortunately, SPS frags (especially acropora) in a tank less than a year*** are really fragile even if you do everything right. They get easier as time goes on.

Don't be discouraged... this is all part of getting a mature tank.

*** The year timetable is not an absolute, but having sponges on the dark sides of all of your rock and coralline everywhere is a pretty good place to be before you can expect the most-healthy acropora. This usually takes about a year unless the tank has a ton of dry rock and then it can take longer.

jda read my mind. Even though you seeded to speed up the cycle, the tank is still relatively new.

 

[gdemos]

Good advice/suggestions here Cody. From jda and others. Losses are unfortunate and disappointing yet not surprising with a mostly new system plus some stability issues plus wild/Mari pieces. Test acros and some hardy canary in coal mine pieces are a sound idea but sounds like you're on top of it so I'm sure you'll get through fine. Stay with it. Try some small dose amino get phosphate to show a trace keep feeding fish. -Greg


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[codydemmel4]

i appreciate all the tips from everyone.

I got the frags this morning, cut them from the base, dipped them and now theyre in the tank. All of them have great PE already so we will see what happens in the next week or 2.

Right now my levels are stable at:
alk 8-8.5
Calc 420-440
Mag 1350-1400
Phosphates are always less then 0.05, only once did it ever read 0.08 (2 months ago)
Nitrate is always less then 10, try to keep it between 2-5

 

[lynchmob3000]

Ride it out. It's even worse when colonies do this!But it happens and we learn that alk is pretty much all we have to worry about with killing sps quickly. The coral tissues die and pollute the tank. If it looks ridiculous just pull it and forget about it. Also we can't rule out viruses being passed from one nasty coral to a healthy one. Been there done that but it was 5, 5 gallon buckets full of expensive colonies. We learn. But I had another setup that I fragged a few branches of each and they did well on a whole different system



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[codydemmel4]

Starting to think something else is going on

Starting to think something else is going on

<a href="http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/codydemmel4/media/new%20180/805B59F7-6421-4080-A8A3-9903FC8EF8D0_zps7h6cmtjf.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah230/codydemmel4/new%20180/805B59F7-6421-4080-A8A3-9903FC8EF8D0_zps7h6cmtjf.png" border="0" alt=" photo 805B59F7-6421-4080-A8A3-9903FC8EF8D0_zps7h6cmtjf.png"/></a>


So I just wanna make sure you guys think this is alk burn and not something else. The tissue slowly declines at the top and it kind of looks like something is picking/eating it. ( i got rid of my angels way before this coral was added, only have anthias, tangs and wrasses now. none of the tangs pick at my corals)

I heard something about white bugs, but I cant get close enough to see them especially since it is a white coral. Alk has been stable from 8-8.5 for over 3 weeks after it jumped to 10 so I don't even think alk burn is a possibility as this coral was not in the tank at that point. kind of confused at this point

 

[jda]

Are you still running the GFO and the keeping the nutrients low? If so, then you will your alk to be 6.5 to 7.0 ish. I don't recommend this, rather let the N and P rise a bit and keep it at 8... but either will work.

 

[codydemmel4]

Are you still running the GFO and the keeping the nutrients low? If so, then you will your alk to be 6.5 to 7.0 ish. I don't recommend this, rather let the N and P rise a bit and keep it at 8... but either will work.

No i took the GFO off when you recommended it on my thread which was a couple days ago, feed the tank at least 4 times a day. only running a skimmer and have a refug with cheato.

Fish are blue power tang, yellow tang, purple tang, kole tang, 5 lyretail anthias, green wrasse, yellow coris wrasse, hovens wrasse, blue chromis. nitrate is showing 4 with red sea and phosphate 0 with hanna.

 

[jda]

What are you getting for P numbers on the Hannah Ultra Low? If they are over 5, then I would look for this to stabilize in the few days since nothing stops or starts on a dime - if it is still receding next week, then that is no bueno (of course). If the P is lower than 5, then I might lower your alk a bit. There is no harm in running sub-seven alk, except that you need to really keep an eye in it and make sure that your supplementation method is dead-on-balls accurate since it really cannot get much lower without doing harm.

 

[codydemmel4]

What are you getting for P numbers on the Hannah Ultra Low? If they are over 5, then I would look for this to stabilize in the few days since nothing stops or starts on a dime - if it is still receding next week, then that is no bueno (of course). If the P is lower than 5, then I might lower your alk a bit. There is no harm in running sub-seven alk, except that you need to really keep an eye in it and make sure that your supplementation method is dead-on-balls accurate since it really cannot get much lower without doing harm.

I don't have the ULR unfortunately so I'm sure it's not 0, but I am looking to buy a ULR