Buying used tank questions...

JJ4417

JJ4417

New member
Ok, typed a big long story but it's pointless...

Here's the gist of it and this is the short version.

I want to 'learn' ins and outs of reefs, plumbing, electrical, etc. I plan on a DIY stand, lighting, and rock. I'll buy a tank, but I want something drilled, or that I can drill. It will probably turn into a QT or 'special' tank later, I just want to get into the hobby and play around a little.

A lot of what I see on CL is wet-dry and bio wheel. I know better than to do this. My question is, do these make good drilled tanks? I seems like the design takes a lot of tank space, but would it work for a newbie to turn into a LR/sump type tank?

I'm really looking at a 48" tank as I can increase the height and depth and get a lot, but still use the same equipment over and under. Sound about right?

I'm sure more will come to me...any thoughts?
 
I have 90g acrylic for sale. Built in wet dry filter. I was going to remove the media and drill it for a sump/fuge. I will include a 1 1/2 bulkhead so you can drill it yourself. $250. The tank has never been set up so it is basically new.
 
I read it...thinking about it. Honestly, I can't buy anything yet. I might get promoted, but it will force a move. If I have to sell this house, it would be one more thing I would have to pay to have moved.

Another question for all...here is my other option...

Should I go the Travis Stevens Nano route first? If you missed that thread, it is a 10g WalMart tank with a heavy dose of DIY and a sump in a 5 gallon plastic tub. I'm a little concerned with the small water amounts. One thing wrong and I crash the tank. However, I expect to do things wrong as I learn. I think the whole take set up runs about $150 bucks though. Most of that is in the stand.

Comments?
 
Go pre-drilled or pm funman1.

Look for length and width over more height. Height dramatically increases light ($$$) requirements. Plus it more difficult (aesthetically) to aquascape. Also, think about your "final" show tank dimensions in your early planning: Water changes can be a major time, labor, and cost outlay on that sweet 240g...

If you're going to use it as a starter/future sump: Consider how it will fit under your 'permanent' tank.

Hope I got it right and hope it helped you.

-Kevin
 
If you want to drill a tank let me know.
I have all the stuff to do it (Just got new bits in).
 
My advice is always to buy a nano cube first to learn the basics.

Putting a tank together with all the options that can be had can be overwhelming.

Choosing an acrylic tank versus a glass one....which is just one of the many choices you will be forced to make equipment wise, you could regret quickly and be stuck with it. Buying the wrong size or shape is another.

Combine that with the livestock, chemistry, and husbandry experiece you will need to learn.........it can be overwhelming......hence all of the used tanks one can find.

I would suggest a 24gal Nanocube and learn the basics and to "get your feet wet" Most come ready to go and you can add sand, water and rock to begin your cycle. Not too mention you can fill them up cheaper.....but could easily put 1000's into one.

By going about it this way its not a huge comitment, can be resold or used as a QT tank. That way when your ready to build a bigger one, you can make more knowlegable decisions on what you want/need because based on the livestock you want to keep, there are certain should haves or must haves equipment wise based on just that.
 
Since the nano cubes are almost "complete", can you really learn from them? I know I could do water chemistry...maybe a little lighting and a lot about husbandry. But pumps, sump, fuge, etc seem out of reach for them. Although as a QT tank, it would be much easier to break down and set back up. I am less interested in the "finished" product at this point. I know this is a starter tank, and wouldn't put a lot of money into it, as compared to something in the 90g range. You mentioned 1000's of dollars. Are they really that versitile?

Would I be better off going with a 20g starter tank and 'building' the system? Learn the mechanics of the hobby prior to getting to the point where I could jeapordize livestock?

Also, how do you decide where you want the tank? I would love to eventually do a ATO, but having a waterline running around the baseboards isn't an option.

Funman: What does a kit require? Isn't it just diamond tip bits and a properly fitting bulkhead?

Thanks for the help so far. Can you tell I am not in a huge rush on this? I'm afraid once I start buying critters that my patience will end.
 
"Would I be better off going with a 20g starter tank and 'building' the system? Learn the mechanics of the hobby prior to getting to the point where I could jeapordize livestock?"

I bought a 50 plumed it, drilled it, the whole 9. I had the help of a very good friend but I learned ALOT. I don't think I would do it any other way. Your choice though.
 
You could drill a 24G nano and put like a 10G sump below it.
Don't know about the kits but yes I have brand new diamond bits and a nice dremel to do the cutting.

I started with a 12G nano and added all sorts of weird stuff to it.
then upgraded the ballast and made it remote. I added a phosban reactor to my nano when my phos was high.
then upgraded the return pump for more flow.
then I made an ATO for the tank
Then I did a whole lighting controller for it

You can do a lot with a small tank.
One thing I wish I had done was drilled it and added a fuge.
But once you have livestock you can't drill it, (tills it's empty again) hence too much work.

I LOVE my 30G Oceanic too.
Great starter tank.
It has a 20G sump for equipment and a 10G fuge with cheato.
It has allowed me to mess with chemistry more since on the nanos I just did weekly water changes and everything was WELL within range of where it should be. The 30g has me constantly fiddling with it, (Which I love to do!)
And I'm always tweaking it, I even added a PLC Programmable Logic Controller to it!!

As anyone who's been over can testify, I'm a major DIY fiddler.
 
Sounds like you're a DIYer and you've put some energy into doing the right thing. Hit craigslist and get started on the cheap right now. Just respect your responsibility to your critters.
 
In the end it really depends on how much you plan to commit yourself to this hobby. I have been "lazy" lately and am only spending about 10-15min a day. Its not a suprise to spend an 1/2 hour every day or more. All day on large chores/projects. I just like people to know it ain't exactly "plug and play" and it takes vigilant work over the course of years to get a really successfull tank. People tend to get all fired up about stuff and a month later have lost interest. Most when they get that new tank up and going want it full and growing out of the tank in a week, go down and buy a bunch of stuff that they don't know how to properly take care of and end up having it die off while they are trying to figure out how why they can't keep thier alk stable, get rid of the ich on the fish, hate the brown diatoms and hair algae.....the list goes on.....

I just think the nanos are a good place to start, it doesn't hurt to have one. You can learn just about all the basics and learn what you like or don't like livestock wise so you can choose the equipment for the "big" tank better. In addition, you can fill them up quicker, to get that gratification and satisfaction.

There is nothing wrong with jumping into the deep end of the pool and going all out, ( I did, but it was an expensive lesson).....but the learning curve could be quite steep and expensive if you nuke a larger tank and if this at all could be something your not into, nanos are easy to recover from and dissasemble etc.

I try to er on the conservative side in this situation, just in case. I don't want you to waste your money on equipment that you may or may not need or want or change your mind about later.

But before you buy a tank. Find some pictures of tanks that resemble the type of tank (livestock/coral wise) or if you already know let us know, so we can keep our eyes out for something or can give you and idea of what you may need/want. Like a used AGA tank with the overflow already there.

We don't want you getting 400W Halide lights a large Deltec Skimmer and 4 Tunzes if all you want is mushrooms and zoas.
 
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You guys have pretty much firmed up what I already thought. Start small. I think I will get the most satisfaction out of the DIY aspect of it. The plug and play just doesn't seem 'real'. Might as well get a waterfall or something. I want more of the sense of pride knowing that I created something where the critters can live.

As far as tanks...of those I have seen in person, my favorite would have to be the main display at YR. I read so often about people not wanting to overload their tanks, but they've got a great selection of fish. Does he use that as he grow tank for the more rare corals too? Clams, stars, shrimp, you name it, it was in there. (Okay...didn't have the sandy type fish in there cause it is BB, but still.) You can stare at it for 30 minutes and still find new things. That is my ultimate goal, years down the road. Not necessarily 'big', just diverse. Right now, my fish of choice has to be the imperator angel, or something close.

For now, I'll settle for being able to keep some bristle worms and pods alive. Looks like a trip to Walmart is in order.

Is there a generally accepted size where you need to have skimmer? Would LR be enough for a 30g main with 10g sump/fuge? (I know, depends on bioload, but in general?)
 
Yup. What dots said.

The alchemy here is to get beauty for economy of money and effort. Not gonna happen.

But... Research like crazy, get a reef buddy (for vacations, etc.) and cut corners in a way that is safe (buy 'used' when OK, etc.) And if you get it right you might just end up with something that makes you forget TV ever existed. Seriously. I fall asleep in front of our reef more often than not.

If you can commit -- Do it. But expect 15-45 minutes/day of focused attention and effort as well as a primetime suckhole on your budget. If you dig it, it will reward you but don't think this will not consume you or you will end up with a stinky brown karmic headache.
 
You don't necessarily have to have a skimmer per se. If you want to keep SPS or you have a huge bioload .. then yes.

Oh I stand in front of YR's maintank all the time my friend. I wish one day to have a huge tank- like the ones in the large tank forums (I'm living vicariously =) ) Honestly, I agree with going with a small tank first. Learn the basics. There's a lot basics.. haha. It may seem silly, but I have a 30 gallon and it's a bit of work to keep it up.

If you really don't want to get those plug in play tanks, I say that's perfectly fine. I drilled my 30 gallon with an overflow, made a skimmer box, did all the plumbing..and am completely satisfied.

For LR, I believe it's roughly 1lb per gallon. Anyways, that's my .02
 
A skimmer is a means of nutrient export and catches the decaying matter before it breaks down in to Ammonia-Nitrite-Nitrate. A skimmer decreases the amount that gets to break down. A small in sump one wouldn't hurt, but not a gotta have right now kinda thing. It just means you will be wanting to watch your nutrient intake and rely more on water changes or other denitrators.

The best I can suggest is research EVERYTHING before you buy it and GO SLOW. I think of reeftanks as living puzzles that get harder and harder to place pieces into as your tank gets more diverse and difficult to balance as you add more and more.

I completly understand the "tinkering" thing. When I moved to sac, I had to sell of my cars and move into an apartment. A guy needs something to do when he has had a garage all of his live to play with his "toys" in and needs something to keep him from going crazy. Im glad I did....learned a lot!!
 
For water stability: Go as large of volume as you can afford to keep up w/cost and water changes plus start-up equipment and general maintenance.

Count on needing a skimmer. Even a cheesy one is better than nothing if it produces skimmate. But better to invest money or DIY effort in quality at the outset than pay once to start then twice to upgrade.
 
I've been reading off and on for a year or so. I joined MARS in March of last year. I know most of what you guys are talking about. Money isn't really the issue, but wasting it would irritate me. It's more of what dots said, I need something to tinker with. This hobby will combine woodwork, electrical, biology, physics, etc. It is diverse enough to expand upon a huge interest I already have since I don't get to dive enough anymore.

It is questions that only come from experience that I need a little help with. The stuff that isn't talked about on here regularly. Like this...

Can you get too big of a skimmer? Am I wrong in thinking that the skimmer doesn't pull out anything positive of the tank?

Or...

Why would someone do a closed loop when they could toss in a couple of turbelles? Is it just a money issue? In the end it is just moving the water around, they aren't adding anything in the loop.

Remember my original thought was to go with a tank that was 48" long, probably a 50g. I could upgrade tanks and stay with that same 48" and just increase the width and depth of the tank. That way, I could build a stand and slowly buy sump, skimmer, lighting, etc. for say a 120g. I could re-plumb and re-wire things as necessary. I would only be buying things once knowing that I would be going to a larger tank. I could figure out what works best before I invest in the rock and livestock that a 90g or 120g demands, since the largest real investment comes from that. I do not want to be the guy that has boxes of stuff I don't use anymore.

These questions are probably a little premature, but it doesn't hurt to ask them now. Having a pretty good idea of where I am going with the tank wouldn't hurt.
 
The skimmer should be 2 to 3 times what is rated. There are limits but I have a red Sea Berlin rated at 250g max, powered by a mag5 on my 50. I only have to empty the collection cup about once a week. When I move stuff around the tank and cloud it up I will turn it up for an hour or two and it clears right up. Closed loops are good to maximize flow and not have alot stuff hanging in the display. A much cleaner and natural look. More $$$$ but better IMO.
 
48" lends itself to a few tank sizes (good for forward compatibility) but IMHO the 13" front-to-back of a 55g (= your 50g?) is a deal breaker, unless you get a steal of a deal. My 75g has 18" front to back and I wish I had a lot more of that for reefitechture purposes.
 
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