CADlights 39g Pro build thread

[schnitm]

It's not as complicated as it looks - some of the connections are just reflections

Now you see the problem - you have to get the return assembly connected to the lockline barbs with hose.

That answers my question.

Anyone design an alternative to this space hogging return design. This calls for some DIY bulkheads for sure.

 

[reeftivo]

Look on page 11, post 264!

The Hofer he uses gives him more room but With the Durso it would be a different story.

I use a 1/2 inch barbed "Y" off the return and just run the vinyl up to the elbows. Works for me.

Love that Artisan BTW!

Tivo

 

[meinestrasse]

I am using an MP40 on one back glass, turned down to about 50%, and a Hydor Koralia Nano on the other side along with a hydor FLO water deflector on each return and there don't seem to be any dead spots nor are the fish pushed around. I didn't feel that the Vortech would get to the bottom of the opposite side of the tank with my rock configuration. I imagine if I had put the Vortech on the side of the tank I wouldn't need any additional powerheads but I didn't like the way it looked.

The Sicce on the opposite side of a Vortech would probably work out perfectly for you. Though you might find that two Sicce's might work well too, and much cheaper.

With the MP40, I intend to use fine grade oolithic sand substrate in the DT. My LFS just changed over all their DTs with the oolithic and man, it looks nice. Am I gonna have a chronic sandstorm if I use the MP40 with a 3-4 inch sandbed? Or will it eventually settle down? Or should I just use some medium grade aragonite? I have 20 lbs of GARF that I can use to seed some Seaflor substrate if it's a no-go on the oolithic.

BTW, I ordered a 12v WATERPROOF cabinet fan from a place called Mouser Electronics. Made by a company called ADDA. It's a fully submersible fan and only $14 (shipping an add'l $7). It's just like a computer fan at 92 mm and only puts out 25 decibels of sound (whisper quiet). It moves 36 cubic feet per minute. I plan to mount the fan on the back wall of the cherry stand above the sump but below the shelf. I thought about doing two fans (one on each side of the cabinet), but 36 cfm is plenty I think, and two fans would probably contribute to greater evaporation (Ie. top-off more often), and look ugly IMO. Air intake would come thru the existing holes in the back of the cabinet (for the wires, etc.).

 

[timdanger]

my $0.02: my mp10 has crapped out (making horrible grinding/seize-up noises) twice in the middle of the night in the 4 months since i installed it. i bought it from marine depot, so i have a "warranty' -- but, after calling ecotech, they want me to mail them the pump, let them tinker with it, and then wait for them to mail it back to me. sounds like 7-10 days without flow in my tank. if i bought a tv that was crapping out after 4 months, i'd exchange it for a new one and let the manufacturer figure out the problem without putting me as the customer in the position of "doing without" in the meantime. however, at least with a tv, i could "go without" and be fine -- my SPS will not be fine for 10 days with 65% of the flow gone from the tank.

i run mine at 100% reef crest -- the "whirring" it emits is the loudest part of my tank.

 

[reeftivo]

With the MP40, I intend to use fine grade oolithic sand substrate in the DT. My LFS just changed over all their DTs with the oolithic and man, it looks nice. Am I gonna have a chronic sandstorm if I use the MP40 with a 3-4 inch sandbed? Or will it eventually settle down? Or should I just use some medium grade aragonite? I have 20 lbs of GARF that I can use to seed some Seaflor substrate if it's a no-go on the oolithic.

BTW, I ordered a 12v WATERPROOF cabinet fan from a place called Mouser Electronics. Made by a company called ADDA. It's a fully submersible fan and only $14 (shipping an add'l $7). It's just like a computer fan at 92 mm and only puts out 25 decibels of sound (whisper quiet). It moves 36 cubic feet per minute. I plan to mount the fan on the back wall of the cherry stand above the sump but below the shelf. I thought about doing two fans (one on each side of the cabinet), but 36 cfm is plenty I think, and two fans would probably contribute to greater evaporation (Ie. top-off more often), and look ugly IMO. Air intake would come thru the existing holes in the back of the cabinet (for the wires, etc.).

Oolitic will = sandstorm. Not so much with the vortecs, but in my case it was from the darn fish. They would love to hunker down and blast up the sand. Drove me nuts because my monti caps would actually fill with sand. I put a couple inches of more coarse aragonite on top of the oolitic and solved my issue.

BTW, that fan sounds awsome. I'll have to check it out!

Thanks

Tivo

 

[reeftivo]

my $0.02: my mp10 has crapped out (making horrible grinding/seize-up noises) twice in the middle of the night in the 4 months since i installed it. i bought it from marine depot, so i have a "warranty' -- but, after calling ecotech, they want me to mail them the pump, let them tinker with it, and then wait for them to mail it back to me. sounds like 7-10 days without flow in my tank. if i bought a tv that was crapping out after 4 months, i'd exchange it for a new one and let the manufacturer figure out the problem without putting me as the customer in the position of "doing without" in the meantime. however, at least with a tv, i could "go without" and be fine -- my SPS will not be fine for 10 days with 65% of the flow gone from the tank.

i run mine at 100% reef crest -- the "whirring" it emits is the loudest part of my tank.

That sucks timdanger!

I had a similar problem on mine when mine would build some algae (micro,macro,coralline) on the prop. I guess it was throwing it out of balance. When I cleaned it well the grinding would go away. I don't have near the algae growth I did since running zeovit so it's not an issue anymore.

My MP20 was shutting down a while back and Vortec told me the same thing after I showed them I put the pump together correctly. I knew they would fix it but couldn't wait weeks before they got it back to me. I purchased a back up wet side from MD for $75 and sent the old assembly to them. I received it back 3 weeks later. I'm pretty sure it is a brand new one and not the one I sent back.

Anyway's, they took care of it but they should have just sent me a new one with return shipping for the old one without question IMO.

 

[timdanger]

That sucks timdanger!

I had a similar problem on mine when mine would build some algae (micro,macro,coralline) on the prop. I guess it was throwing it out of balance. When I cleaned it well the grinding would go away. I don't have near the algae growth I did since running zeovit so it's not an issue anymore.

My MP20 was shutting down a while back and Vortec told me the same thing after I showed them I put the pump together correctly. I knew they would fix it but couldn't wait weeks before they got it back to me. I purchased a back up wet side from MD for $75 and sent the old assembly to them. I received it back 3 weeks later. I'm pretty sure it is a brand new one and not the one I sent back.

Anyway's, they took care of it but they should have just sent me a new one with return shipping for the old one without question IMO.

just got off the phone with ecotech. i explained the situation (using the tv analogy), and they were actually very helpful and it sounds like they're going to take care of this for me! they're going to send me a new mp10 (i just had to give him CC info), and then i will send in my malfunctioning mp10 after i get the new one (so i don't have to be without flow), and then they'll either fix my old one and send it back to me, or i'll just get to keep the new one. either way, i am very happy that they were willing to work with me on this. the fact that they are willing to do the right thing to stand behind their product earns them a lot of favor with me. thanks ecotech! :thumbsup:

 

[timdanger]

cant wait to get started. im getting the 50G with the new upgrades:
16G Sump (No extra charge)
Sicce Pump (No extra charge)
NAC-6 ($90 upgrade)

back to my main point, CAD says that the plumbing for the Artisan is the same as the plumbing for the Pro, thats why im here.

Sicce pump? did they change the return pump?

 

[reeftivo]

Yes PSK2500

nice upgrade but your tunze is better!

 

[Manwolf]

awesome work!

 

[reeftivo]

check these out
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f60/voyager-1-stream-pump-sicce-126496.html

After the initial video,look at the voyager demo video of the different flow patterns-awsome for such an inexpensive stream pump.

 

[marinetankdiver]

sump modifications

sump modifications

OK, so I made a few modifications to the sump to increase its effectiveness, but mostly to fix that damn micro-bubble problem

First some of the issues I have noticed with the sump:

First, when the water level is kept at about 8" in all three chambers the center section didn't "move" much and would get a film on the surface.

Second, if I wanted to have movement in the second chamber I would have to lower the water level to just above the walls. This would fix the stagnate water problem but the water level would be too low for the skimmer and my macro algae would flow into the return section and clog the return pump. Also with the water this low the bubbles where insane.

I could fix the low level in the skimmer section by putting sponges between the skimmer and middle section to slow the flow of water enough that it would back-up in the skimmer section. But that didn't fix the macro algae or bubble problem.

This is what I did:

I added acrylic to both sides of the center section to raise the water level without slowing the flow down. To stop the macro algae from flowing into the return section I made a small trough that holds a sponge that acts as a filter and stops the algae.

I now have good agitation in the center section, the water level is where it needs to be for the skimmer and the bubbles were reduced, but not eliminated.

To finally get rid of the bubbles I had to break down and get a filter sock for the drain pipe. I know that is what everyone has been saying to do all along and you were all correct. I'll just make switching out the socks part of my weekly maintenance.

One other benefit to this set-up is if my drain line gets clogged my tank won't overflow because the majority of the water in the sump will stay in the two center sections. Only about two gallons of water gets pumped out of the sump and into the tank and I have room for a bit over two gallons in the tank. It's close but at least I won't pump the five or six gallons back into the tank that I would if all three chambers were kept at 8 inches.

Here are the pictures of my sump now, the extra plastic pieces cost me $3.50 at Tap Plastics. The right side piece is 2.5" x 10 5/8", if I were doing it again I would make that piece only 2" tall. The left side is made up of a 1" x 10 5/8" piece and a 2.5" piece. Again I would make that second piece only 2" wide.

Anyway I am finally happy with the way this is working and may actually leave it alone for more than a day

 

[CalmSeasQuest]

Nice Mod Sam! - I struggled with the same stagnation problem in the middle sump before I added the frag tank and additional flow. Nice solution.

Your micro bubble issue should go away with the filter sock (assuming they are coming from the return.) I found that if I run the Bubble Magus skimmer in more than about 8" of water, it ejects tons of micro bubbles. I elevated the skimmer about 2 1/2" so I could run the max power-out safe water level of 10" without the bubbles.

Buy lots of filter socks - makes the maintenance easier

 

[CalmSeasQuest]

BTW, I am thinking of selling the 39G Pro stock lighting in anticipation of an LED upgrade. It's still sitting in the original boxes, unopened and unused. I tested them to make sure they work. Anyone have any ideas on what I can sell the stock 150 HQIs for on craiglist? I wonder if Eddie would take them back.

Been there - Done that I went with the AI LEDS (Love them- Pics in my album at http://reefcentral.com/forums/album.php?albumid=887)

I kept the Cad MH initially as a backup in the event of a failure, but found it works nicely on a small frag tank setup that shares a common sump with the 39GPro.

 

[meinestrasse]

Your micro bubble issue should go away with the filter sock (assuming they are coming from the return.) I found that if I run the Bubble Magus skimmer in more than about 8" of water, it ejects tons of micro bubbles. I elevated the skimmer about 2 1/2" so I could run the max power-out safe water level of 10" without the bubbles.

Buy lots of filter socks - makes the maintenance easier

Last week I asked Eddie about making a mod to the sump to combat the reported micro bubble issues, and he said it's not the sump design but the skimmer he used to ship as stock. I'm assuming that meant before the Bubble Magnus. It looks like you're having micro bubbles with the BM, though. I ordered my 39G without the BM skimmer and am looking to buy one. Will probably go Tunze unless anyone has better suggestions. You pay a premium with Tunze but I've always been happy with the results.

 

[meinestrasse]

Been there - Done that I went with the AI LEDS (Love them- Pics in my album at http://reefcentral.com/forums/album.php?albumid=887)

I kept the Cad MH initially as a backup in the event of a failure, but found it works nicely on a small frag tank setup that shares a common sump with the 39GPro.

Are those the LEDs going for $1200 on reefgeeks?

 

[marinetankdiver]

Last week I asked Eddie about making a mod to the sump to combat the reported micro bubble issues, and he said it's not the sump design but the skimmer he used to ship as stock. I'm assuming that meant before the Bubble Magnus. It looks like you're having micro bubbles with the BM, though. I ordered my 39G without the BM skimmer and am looking to buy one. Will probably go Tunze unless anyone has better suggestions. You pay a premium with Tunze but I've always been happy with the results.

I believe that the micro bubbles get back to the tank because the sump is so small. both the drain line and skimmer create the bubbles and there just isn't enough room for them to dissipate before getting to the return section. I know I keep going back to my old 120 and how it didn't have bubbles but I think that one the sump was designed better and two the sump was big, 45 gallons, so there was lots of space and time for the bubbles to dissipate before getting to the return section.

If I were to do this all over again from the beginning I would not use the "stock" stand, sump or lights. The stand is well built but doesn't provide enough space under the tank. I would put the tank on something that allowed for at least a 24" sump plus room for ATO and other storage.

The sump is just too small to combat the bubble problem and still have decent flow.

The light is actually OK except for the fan, which sounds like a plane is landing in the living room, well not quite but it is unacceptably loud.

So far the mods I have made have been

1)add an exhaust fan to the cabinet, with out it I have a small sauna under the tank.
2)replace the fan in the light with 2 17 db computer fan that moves 75cfm. I get no heat transfer from the light to the tank with these fans going.
3)modified the sump to get better water levels, flow and help with the micro-bubble.
4)added a filter sock to the drain line - not sure why I am so adverse to filter socks but I am.
5)Set up a small ATO that sits on top of the sump. The container only holds about 2.5 gallons and I have to fill it every two days but at least the water level is kept constant an I don't have large additions of fresh water daily.

I still get a few micro-bubbles in the display tank, maybe a couple dozen or so. They are definitely coming from the BM skimmer which sits in about 8.5" of water. Incidentally the BM website says to put the skimmer in 8"-10".

I can live with the few bubbles since I can't remember ever scuba diving in a perfectly clear ocean.

Future mods will be to change the lights out to an LED fixture and to build a new stand that will house the electrical in a separate compartment on one side and have enough room for a 24" sump, larger ATO, dosing stuff and storage.

As far as the skimmer goes if I was going to get a different one for this sump it would be the Tunze as well. Not only does Tunze make a good product it is one of the few skimmers that will fit easily.

 

[meinestrasse]

I believe that the micro bubbles get back to the tank because the sump is so small. both the drain line and skimmer create the bubbles and there just isn't enough room for them to dissipate before getting to the return section. I know I keep going back to my old 120 and how it didn't have bubbles but I think that one the sump was designed better and two the sump was big, 45 gallons, so there was lots of space and time for the bubbles to dissipate before getting to the return section.

I was looking thru the Reef Invertebrates book by Anthony Calfo again last night. I highly recommend this book. It goes into great detail on live rock, live sand, refugia, sumps, etc. Much more so than any of the entry level aquarium books.

One thing he suggests is that the flow in the sump should only be 2-5 times the sump/tank volume per hour to create a lagoon or estuary for water to have longer contact time with the skimmer and vegetable filter. I think this might also help with the micro bubbles, since the water won't be moving as quickly as in the DT -- where Calfo says you should have much higher flow with powerheads, etc. The stock return pump puts out 10+ times flow of the the entire tank/sump volume. But I think the Tunze *.020 at lowest setting does about 2x flow.

You might also try these overflow combs between the 2nd and 3rd sump chamber:

http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=90

 

[marinetankdiver]

I never did use the stock pump. i've only used an eheim compact 3000 turned down to about 1/2 so my flow has been around 150 - 200 gph.

I may try turning it down all the way to see if I can get rid of the filter sock. Though everything seems to be working great right now so i probably won't mess with anything, at least for awhile.

Thanks for the suggestion on the book and combs.

 

[CalmSeasQuest]

It looks like you're having micro bubbles with the BM, though. I ordered my 39G without the BM skimmer and am looking to buy one.

No problems here - My system is largely on autopilot now. My setup is a bit different as I have 2 tanks on one sump which increased the flow and amount of water in the sump. The solution was simply raising the BM skimmer a bit - it all works great.

Are those the LEDs going for $1200 on reefgeeks?

Yes, they were pricey - but IMO well worth the investment.

-NO heat transferred to the tank
-NO bulbs to replace (for about 13 years)
-Less than 1/2 the electricity (and they are PAR MONSTERS - 140 Watts of LEDS provides more PAR than 400+ watts of MH)
-A built in ramping controller that allows for custom sunrise/sunsets and mid-day PAR increases.

I'm a huge proponent of LEDS - I even run an Evil PAR 38 21W 12K LED bulb in my sump (a while back I set up a test frag tank in the center sump section - 21 watts did great job of growing SPS.)

I believe LEDS will completely replace MH as the acquisition costs fall. If your handy, there are lots of DIY options that cost a fraction of the AI's (but you lose the controller.)