Campaign to support LFS

Re: Campaign to support LFS

Chrisstie ,

It is a shame you have been busy raiding , err I mean job hunting and have been busy ( doing quests ) .

I have always bought locally "live stock" assuming I know the vendor they are getting it from . But agreeing with others the Dry goods prices are just too much . I still try to buy local assuming Aquatic eco has something on sale but aside from that I am forced to buy used .

In fact I am getting rid of my whole tank for a smaller one since I cannot even afford a 90g anymore . I make an ok amount of money yet I still had to save up 3 months just to buy the SE of warhammer online ( and now it looks like ill be saving for diablo 3 also )

I am sure in time the only thing I will be buying from LFS 's are om nom noms for my fish.

I hope all of this ( The economy's problems ) eventually fade slightly away so I am able to walk into an lfs once again and actually purchase product which is a good deal for me and a decent profit for the LFS .
 
Chrisstie,



How are those Red Sea Lights you purchased from MarineDepot.com working out for you? :) Did that T-Shirt from DrsFosterandSmith.com fit you well? :) I think you are right to worry about all of the LFS lately. Times are tight for most business. Hey don't feel bad, things might be just as tight for those online business too. So I would feel good about those purchases as well. I was just giving you a hard time. At least you are spending money!!! I read your blog under your website and saw a chance to rib you a little for the irony. :)



As far as those people asking for a bigger discount from the local mom and pop stores... how did that work out for Blue Reef Marine? I think most people are only considering the wholesale cost of an item verses the retail sale price of that same item, and not considering the rent, employees, utilities (electric, water, etc.) that all LFS have to pay and many online stores do not. The online retailers may have the image of a retail giant, but they could be a small warehouse in a low rent district. They may have a handful of part time employees (no benefit payments) willing to work for minimum wage because the cost of living is cheaper in BFE (and no one cares what they look or smell like). Maybe the impact fees and CAM (Common Area Maintenance) is next to nothing because it doesn't matter what their warehouse looks like on the outside - no one is going there anyway. The don't have as high electric bill because you can find a box with a flashlight and they are not running half a million watts of intense light to keep their product alive. There is no high water bill because Joe Blow can use his own Toilet before going to work - or the Taco Bells public restroom during his 15 minute smoke break. Its easier for the online retailer to compete on price because "hard goods" are their only (or primary) business. The internet allows their market to be national and not regional so they have a greater opportunity to move more items than the LFS. Most LFS only stock a limited amount of items as a convenience for their local customers. They are not driving their income biased on these goods. Because of this, they can pay up too three times more for the same item that an online retailer does. This allows the online retailer to sell it for less but make the same amount (or more) profit.



I have seen (and heard) of people driving across town to save $10 claiming that they are on a very limited budget. Really? How much gas and time did that drive cost you? The fact of the matter is most LFS will be willing to price match the online retailer. But you have to be willing to take into consideration the shipping costs that the online retailer most certainly is going to hit you up with. It is so sad to see this attitude that price is the only factor for purchasing an item. What about product knowledge? Good service? Convenient location? Immediate delivery? Aren't they important to you too? Or would you rather an automatic checkout machine replace your love one at their line of work? "But I don't want to overpay for that item." Did you overpay if pump XYZ was slightly cheaper online? Maybe, but your extra dollars went to support your LFS's overhead - insuring that livestock, fish food, salt is just a small drive away. Believe me the slight difference in cost did NOT go to fatten the wallet of the LFS owner or pay for their Bay Hill Country Club Membership! If it did, then why would ALL LFS owners in Central Florida work in their store 40+ hours per week? If you want proof, go into any LFS and ask: "is the owner here?" I think you will be surprised.



So good for you Chrisstie! We should all support the local business. If we do, than maybe the economy can turn around for us in our line of work as well.
 
Oh, by the way The_Browns the free Hippo Tang I got from you after driving to the other side of town is doing well and healthy! :) Thanks :)
 
A store in Ga. Will price match any online retailer but you can't pick up the item for 4 days it stays under the counter till you come back. Payment now of course thou. I think it is brilliant.
 
Orlandobrian-First of all, I had tried to get my lights locally for about 3 months but really didn't want things in my tank to start dying so I was basically forced to order from one of the few sources that has them in stock, my corals were already starting downhill from the lights being too old. That was basically an extreme priority which happened before the start of the campaign. If you want to harp on me for getting a free shirt with less than $10 bucks shipping as opposed to shopping at stores at the mall where a woman's shirt is likely $25+ (unless its on sale) well, I don't exactly support my LFS through buying my clothes there!

My main point in making this post is that times are hard. Sure they've been heading that way for a while but I'm trying to energize everyone else to start NOW (not before when those posts were made, what the heck) to do this.

Did you know that the industrial area where Sea in the City is had copper thieves steal the air conditioners out of several buildings? There's the Vet, a church, a peanut boiling plant, salon type place, a fish store that had its livestock put at risk with the high temps we've had and no AC and many others in the area that were affected or nearly were. There's always going to be those costs no one can figure in. Supporting locally as much as humanly possible will help get all of our LFS through these tough times. Blue Reef Marine was nice and unfortunately had to go, the way I see it is "whos next and what can we do to prevent it"


For Chantweaver -I don't see the point in that? They are probably losing money on items they sell but 4 days later?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12898569#post12898569 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AJ69
I'm with Mr Brown the LFS have a huge mark up,
Click to expand...

Then yourself and Mr brown are a couple very ignorant people who know nothing about what they speak.
Do you have proof of where these huge markups are? I would like to see some.

Nothing worse then cheep reefers......

Im gonna also take a guess that you also buy most of your equipment used or form other reefers.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12927710#post12927710 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by saltyguppie
Then yourself and Mr brown are a couple very ignorant people who know nothing about what they speak.
Do you have proof of where these huge markups are? I would like to see some.

Nothing worse then cheep reefers......

Im gonna also take a guess that you also buy most of your equipment used or form other reefers.
Click to expand...

Nothing worse than cheap reefers?

:lol:

I beg to differ, I can think of many off hand worse than a "cheap reefer". :lol: Is there something wrong with having a hobby and not wanting to pay jacked up prices?

I've bought a couple of dry good items in the store when they're on sale, but other than that I mostly buy used or online because 99% of the time they're way cheaper (not sure who commented on salt, but DFS' prices rock on salt and they only charge like 8 bucks for shipping).

I think if this much energy was put into a real campaign worth sweating over, we might get something done. Problem is, "saving the live fish stores" doesn't seem like a charity I want to waste my time on. I'll buy from whoever puts something I like/want/need in the price range that I want it. I usually cruise around to the LFS' now and again to see what they have, but I'm not going to buy something that I don't want, or something way jacked up in price because I feel pity on business owners. It's called being a good consumer, and it hardly makes me a bad person for not supporting businesses to keep them afloat.
 
I only support my LFS's and local hobbyists.. haven't needed to buy online. Everyone in town carries everything I could ever need, and cheaper than online at that.

Being an entrepreneur myself, I understand the value of the family/local owned business. LFS owners aren't going to get rich; they run their shop because of their love for the hobby and helping other hobbyists grow and learn. I understand and respect, and will do whatever I can to help support them.
 
chrisstie,

I was just giving you a hard time - joking. I think I might have the same t-shirt (it came in a bucket of salt though).

That copper stealing thing is nuts!?!!?
 
InLimbo87,



That is the most ironic thing I ever heard! You don't want to help the local small businesses but you are studying to be an accountant?!?!? Whose books are you hoping to do? Small businesses use accountants but most employees do not. Where are you hoping to work? DFS has an accountant already I am sure!



We will see if you feel the same way if you are brave enough to open your own accounting business. Where do you set up your office? High visibility comes with a high price. Do you know the going rate of rent nowadays? It's $30 per square foot on average for an AVERAGE demographic retail location - $3000 + per month (not counting taxes, insurance, CAM). And how much do you charge for your professional time? $100 per hour? $200 per hour? How do you justify this "jacked up" price - since time doesn't cost you money? Aren't there online accountants I can use? Can't I just use QuickBooks?



DFS sells salt based upon how much they buy it for. The local fish store does the same but are buying MUCH less of the same product - so they pay more and charge more. If you don't want to buy it, don't. But if they didn't stock it, you would be the first person saying that LFS didn't carry anything you need. Wipe out the LFS and... your tank breaks... Fish flopping in what's left of the water on your floor... Quick call DFS - can they send you saltwater in 30 minutes or less?
 
I love to support the Local Small Business, but unfortunately I have fallen into the realm of being a nasty, vile, disgusting "cheap reefer". Unfortunately, the economy already dropped the hammer on me and my financial world. I am still dedicated to doing what I can, whith what I can, to give my corals, fishes and inverts the best little piece of the world that I can. Yes, I even stoop so low as to buy used items, and buy from fellow reefers....I seem to remember when this hobby was all about swapping, sharing and selling/buying with friends. I remember when the fish stores all thought a new tetra was something to get excited about....I may be a cheap reefer, but I have been a cheap reefer since the 80's, when any other old timers can vouch for me, that was how we did it.....

As for the person whe feels there is nothing worse than a cheap reefer....I will just say get a clue. I just put together a fantastic, nicely designed, and I will say pretty great working and looking system, and the only thing I went to the store for was plug strips and PVC plumbing items. EVERYTHING else I either made, bought from "friends" of fixed something that was broken or at least used. We used to call it DIY, and it used to be considered a pretty cool thing. If being a cheap reefer is so bad then I just hope the economy doesn't take a big poop on your head, or you will just have to stop the hobby....wouldn't want you to be forced to stoop so low....

And, by the way, I try to buy everything I can at the LFS's, just because I cannot generally cope with the shipping on livestock, and when I buy dry goods, it's usually because I have run out of something, or need an item quickly.....
 
For me all of this comes down to this - each store (including online) has its benefits. Some of the Orlando stores have better prices (in comparison to others) on coral while some are better on their dry goods. When it comes to bigger buys such as lighting or other pricey equipment I will definitely do my research and see where I can get the best bang for my buck. I think it would be foolish to do otherwise. I mean who goes out to buy lets say, a car, and blindly buys at the nearest dealership to their house just because they are local. On the other hand when you need some oil or an air freshener for your car, hitting up the nearest auto zone makes sense.
Kind of an odd analogy but really thats what most of us do. We get our food, salt, 2 part, filter socks, test kits etc local and look around for a good deal on bigger items.
To the point of convenience, yes I do appreciate the LFS that are here in Orlando. It is true that in an emergency they are there and stock almost anything you would need.
Personality also plays into the equation. I have been in some LFS that have ignored me or treated me rudely for what ever reason. I know which ones treat me well and which ones dont. I also know which sales people feed me a line of crap to get me to buy something and the ones that care more about the health of my tank and the inhabitants to let me get something I shouldnt. This plays a huge part for me in where I will shop. Guaranteed the shops that I believe in get my business. Better than that, they get word of mouth which draws more people into their doors.
I think its awesome that we have some great LFS here with some great people that work in them. It is also a business. Being a retailer myself I know that some of the items that my store carries can be found cheaper elsewhere. Its just how business has evolved now that the internet is such a huge part of everything.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12929888#post12929888 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by orlandobrian
InLimbo87,



That is the most ironic thing I ever heard! You don't want to help the local small businesses but you are studying to be an accountant?!?!? Whose books are you hoping to do? Small businesses use accountants but most employees do not. Where are you hoping to work? DFS has an accountant already I am sure!



We will see if you feel the same way if you are brave enough to open your own accounting business. Where do you set up your office? High visibility comes with a high price. Do you know the going rate of rent nowadays? It's $30 per square foot on average for an AVERAGE demographic retail location - $3000 + per month (not counting taxes, insurance, CAM). And how much do you charge for your professional time? $100 per hour? $200 per hour? How do you justify this "jacked up" price - since time doesn't cost you money? Aren't there online accountants I can use? Can't I just use QuickBooks?



DFS sells salt based upon how much they buy it for. The local fish store does the same but are buying MUCH less of the same product - so they pay more and charge more. If you don't want to buy it, don't. But if they didn't stock it, you would be the first person saying that LFS didn't carry anything you need. Wipe out the LFS and... your tank breaks... Fish flopping in what's left of the water on your floor... Quick call DFS - can they send you saltwater in 30 minutes or less?
Click to expand...

I fail to see how my being an accountant versus my statements are ironic in anyway whatsoever. Why would me as a consumer supporting local fish stores have anything to do with me studying to be an accountant?

I'm not sure which way my career will take me, but I assure you I will not count on people to rally together to "save my business" if I ever decide to go the entrepreneur route and open my own accounting firm. It all comes down to the market you're in, and whether the business will be profitable. For instance, Blue Reef Marine obviously did not do their research when it comes to opening a business. If they had, they would've seen that the local market is obviously already oversaturated with competing live fish stores.

I understand why live fish stores charge more. Believe me, I understand economics. Doesn't mean that I, as a consumer, are bad for not supporting them (although I do with buying livestock as I rarely buy it online).

If my tank breaks... I will be making tap water saltwater with the reserve of salt I always have on hand. I could have 30 gallons of saltwater in less time than it would take to get to the store and buy it (at whatever some of these stores charge for water), for only the cost of salt.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12930055#post12930055 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MitchReef

We used to call it DIY, and it used to be considered a pretty cool thing. I
Click to expand...

Mitch, Its still pretty damn cool to DIY..... I love my DIY suspended canopy that I made. Its nothing fancy but it still gets comments like "wow, you made this?"
This is still a hobby.... right? A hobby involves creation and work, not just buying everything pre-made at a store. Sure, some things need to be made, but its fun to see what you can do from scratch. IMO theres definitely an awesome sense of satisfaction when you make something as good, or better than someone who makes the same item for a living.
 
InLimbo87,



"I fail to see how my being an accountant versus my statements are ironic in anyway whatsoever. Why would me as a consumer supporting local fish stores have anything to do with me studying to be an accountant?"



You have to build your business somehow. Large corporations use accountants with experience/large accounting firms. So you will have to build up your experience on small business owners like your LFS - assuming you are starting your own business. So not supporting local business and then expecting them to support you (when your schooling is complete) is ironic.


"I'm not sure which way my career will take me, but I assure you I will not count on people to rally together to "save my business" if I ever decide to go the entrepreneur route and open my own accounting firm."



Yes you will. They will be clients and you will need as many as possible to make rent and a profit. Try building a business (investing all of your money and hard work) and see how quickly you start praying people will rally together and use your services.



"It all comes down to the market you're in, and whether the business will be profitable. For instance, Blue Reef Marine obviously did not do their research when it comes to opening a business. If they had, they would've seen that the local market is obviously already oversaturated with competing live fish stores."


Is this why Blue Reef Marine closed their doors? I think it was because they opened in a fairly new plaza (5 years), in an overpriced plaza (my opinion), while the economy was on a decline (not enough business). I have also heard that it had something to do with the unexplained illnesses of a large portion of livestock. Perhaps they were faced with the unexpected cost of nursing their inventory back to health or moving it - before they lost their entire investment.



Many businesses are closing their doors after 10 + years due to today's economy. I have watched friends declare bankruptcy because no one is coming through their doors right now (furniture, restaurants, real-estate, and other small business owners pursuing the American dream). These people are not losing business because of pricing or market saturation, but because people are feeling a pinch all over and not spending money. If you truly understand economics, then you understand that market saturation isn't the only cause for a business to go under. Why are there no fish stores in say Juno Alaska? Market saturation? Why is Dixie Stampede closed - was there something else like it? Sharper Image failed but Radio Shack is still going? KMart, Win Dixie and Sears suffer, but Target and Publix do well - don't they share the same market? Lowes almost always opens within 5 miles of a Home Depot as part of its business plan. Competition is healthy and only the strong survive - not the cheapest. You can buy a burger at McDonalds for 49 cents and pay almost $10 for a burger at Outback - which one tastes better?



"Thats all I have to say about that." - Forest Gump



On a side note, how do quote me first in bold and then respond? Is it just a copy paste thing or something else?
 
You have to build your business somehow. Large corporations use accountants with experience/large accounting firms. So you will have to build up your experience on small business owners like your LFS - assuming you are starting your own business. So not supporting local business and then expecting them to support you (when your schooling is complete) is ironic.
Click to expand...


Irony - n. - the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend.

What I'm saying is not ironic, and I fail to see why you keep comparing it to if I ever open an accounting business. My personal consumer spending habits would not directly affect my ability to open a business and get clients (it would actually help me, though, if I was frugal because I'd have more assets to start the business).

I never said I don't support live fish stores. Merely that I won't for dry goods, etc because I can get them considerably cheaper online or used. I'm not going to pay extra just to support them, and that's my business. Some will, and that's their business. When you open a business you analyze the different potential clients that you have, what services (or goods) will fit their needs, and you execute a business model/plan.

Is this why Blue Reef Marine closed their doors? I think it was because they opened in a fairly new plaza (5 years), in an overpriced plaza (my opinion), while the economy was on a decline (not enough business). I have also heard that it had something to do with the unexplained illnesses of a large portion of livestock. Perhaps they were faced with the unexpected cost of nursing their inventory back to health or moving it - before they lost their entire investment.
Click to expand...

I was merely giving a quick example. I don't know why entirely they went out of business, and really don't care to. But I know that their failure to plan and research the local market for fish stores, was definitely the beginning. When they first opened, I know the first thing to run through my mind was that they were crazy to try to compete as we already have a lot of fish stores for such a small area.

I really find no need to continue on about why businesses are closing, etc. Is a lot of it because of our current state of economy and other such factors? Of course, but my decision to not support businesses for my own reasons does not make me a bad, or hypocritical person. My initial reply was merely refuting the person who said "There's nothing worse than a cheep (Lol at the spelling) reefer". It wasn't intended to spark a discussion where I need to defend what I know about business, accounting, and the economy.

Hit the quote button on the top right of the post to reply with a bolded quote...
 
you are only looking at #1 on dictionary.com try #5. "an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected".

Or the song by Alanis Morissette:
"A traffic jam when you're already late
A no-smoking sign on your cigarette break
It's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife
It's not shoping at the LFS
When you want to be thier accountant
And isn't it ironic... don't you think?"

:) :) :) :)

Thanks for the lesson on quotes!
 
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