Can a fish scratch itself to death?

[Coachb9]

So I am trying to treat my entire DT for ich, but my DT includes a lot of rock and shells.
Well a couple of my fish are scratching themselves in the rocks pretty heavily today and I am curious to know if the fish could be in any serious danger from scratching themselves to death. I really don't want to take out the rock and shells, but don't want to put the fish in jeopardy either.
I am guessing I should take the fish out and treat in a smaller tank, but that just stresses these fish out to the nines.
Any thoughts?

 

[snorvich]

Ttm

 

[Coachb9]

It is not that I am not reading your other 5 messages where you told me I should be doing TTM nor is it a fact that I don't trust you, it is just because I am not in a position to have multiple tanks, heaters, filters etc
I have 1 spare set of everything but putting all my fish in this tank would be really cramped and then I don't want to stress these fish anymore than I already have. So in order to properly perform TTM, I would need to clean out the DT and then leave it clear of fish for 2 months.
If I am reading all that correctly, I am SOL.
I bought a liquid from my LFS that they told me would treat the ich in the DT and it may over time, but I have only been treating it for a week.
I am not trying to dodge my responsibility as a hobbyist or owner of fish, but I want to know what jeopardy I am putting the fish in by my potential ignorance.

 

[Deinonych]

What "liquid" are you using to treat the fish?

 

[Coachb9]

See picture. It was suggested by LFS. The fish appears to be losing skin by scratching so much.
It also weird because it looks like another fish is almost pecking at it, trying to eat away the problem, but he may be just trying to bully.

 

[Dmorty217]

There are only a few PROVEN methods that work for ich... Steve has mentioned TTM several times. The others are hypo and CP, some use them together for added affect. Copper is used by some also but I would suggest one of the other methods. Anything else that claims to cure ich and not harm anything else in the tank is just selling you false hope, along with your LFS

To answer your question the secondary infection caused by the scratching can and will kill fish

 

[Coachb9]

Let's try again.... Pic here hopefully

 

[Dmorty217]

Let's try again.... Pic here hopefully

"All Natural" means it isn't going to work. There are about 6 other products out there that all claim the same thing this bottle does... You never hear about them on these forums because they DO NOT WORK

 

[Coachb9]

My LFS is closed today so I will have to wait until tomorrow to take the blue tang back. My tank just isn't s good home for it.

 

[Deinonych]

"All Natural" means it isn't going to work. There are about 6 other products out there that all claim the same thing this bottle does... You never hear about them on these forums because they DO NOT WORK

+1

Curious what the active ingredients are, as they aren't listed on Sicce's site (not surprisingly).

 

[Coachb9]

You know what, I didn't even look at that. I looks at the bottle just now and it says "proprietary herbal mixture".
Honestly, I thought my LFS was the best option so I went with their suggestion. Guess I might need to reconsider?
Either way, I am giving the blue tang back tomorrow. It is the only one that still shows signs of ich. With all the scratching, it may not be ich any longer. Might be worse
Thanks

 

[m0nkie]

It's not that much effort/money to buy TTM stuff..

-2 used heaters - no more than $40
-2 Home Depot containers - no more than $30
-1 large air bubbler with 2 outlets - $30
-air tube - $5

return all your tangs for store credit.. use those credit and buy some equipment. TTM the fish. Bleach your display tank and start over. keep only the smaller fish.
You can keep them in the HD containers or small tank. Let the DT bacteria cycle. Put all fish back in after a month

 

[Coachb9]

Ok, I think I can do that. What about the live sand and live rock (guess it's live). Do I bleach it too or throw the sand away and keep the rock? If I have to get new sand, that's $50 easy.
Blue tang going back Tuesday. Can give back the 3 damsels too.
Keep puffer, six line wrasse, lawnmower blenny. Are you sure I can't keep the yellow tang? My daughter would be upset because it's the first fish we got (she loves yellow)

So I just move the fish from one container to another every 3 days for 30 days, cleaning the container, heater and bubbler each time? Read that I need to replace the air stone each time. Those are $5 a piece. Truth to that?

Thanks again. I might be moving from dipstick to newbie!

 

[m0nkie]

Ok, I think I can do that. What about the live sand and live rock (guess it's live). Do I bleach it too or throw the sand away and keep the rock? If I have to get new sand, that's $50 easy.
Blue tang going back Tuesday. Can give back the 3 damsels too.
Keep puffer, six line wrasse, lawnmower blenny. Are you sure I can't keep the yellow tang? My daughter would be upset because it's the first fish we got (she loves yellow)

So I just move the fish from one container to another every 3 days for 30 days, cleaning the container, heater and bubbler each time? Read that I need to replace the air stone each time. Those are $5 a piece. Truth to that?

Thanks again. I might be moving from dipstick to newbie!

well if you plan to quarantine religiously from now on, you can keep a small tang. Make sure everything is perfectly QT'd before putting it in DT. If you don't QT every fish, you will most likely see ich again with the tang. But like my previous post in your other thread said, it's not the end of the world. You just have to live with it..

1) live sand you can bleach it.. or dry it up for a month.. the key is to completely dry them before putting back into the tank. Usually I don't keep old sand, but if $$$ is an issue, go ahead. You can even put them in much later, when you are sure they are completely dry.

2) rocks need to be bleached completely. I'd just toss bleach into the tank and then let it dry. (after removing all livestock of course). Or take everything out and bleach it separately.

3) move the fish from 1 container to the other. bleach or sun dry everything!!! here is a good page for instruction. not 30 days. Only do the necessary transfers. You are suppose to leave your tank fallow for 72 days. But if you start over by bleaching everything, you can ignore the fallow period. Use bacteria in a bottle (Dr Tim or Biospira) to restart a tank. cycle in a month!

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1996525

4) clean and bleach all equipment after transfer. No need to buy stone. Just tie the air tube onto a PVC and drop it in. It works the same way.

 

[m0nkie]

1 spot foxface is a very nice yellow fish. maybe you can try switch out the tang for that!

 

[Coachb9]

The fox face gets big. My LFS has one in a tank now and it must be 6-7". My tang is maybe 3 1/2".

So I go on vacation for a week in 2 weeks. Because of this, I think I am stuck waiting until I get back. Reading the other threads you suggested, it appears that I can rid the ich from my fish in 2 weeks, but my DT won't be ready by then.

I will move the blue tang tomorrow and then cross my fingers that my other fish make it for 3 weeks until I can start the TTM when I return.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I can handle this process, although I am concerned about stressing the fish. It's only going to be 4 fish, so I think it will be ok.

 

[m0nkie]

foxface lo is pretty big. grow to be about 9"

yellow tang grow to be around 8"

1 spot foxface grow to be around 7" and you can buy them around 1". very hardy fish and eats algae. difference is this one has a black spot on the tail, the foxface lo does not

 

[m0nkie]

you can also try these yellow fish:

Yellow Corris Wrasse, Lemonpeel Angelfish, Yellow & Black Heraldi Angelfish or Yellow Angelfish. (may not be reef safe)

Golden Midas Blenny (one of my favorite fish, very unique characteristic)

 

[Coachb9]

One more question....
If I am trying to bleach everything, can I dump like 3-4 gallons of bleach in my tank and then let it run through everything for a week (after taking livestock out of course). This would get bleach in the canister filter, tubing, rocks, sand, other decorations, powerhead etc.
Then take out all the water out, rinse everything in saltwater and then begin the cycle for the DT?

 

[Coachb9]

I am not trying to have a reef tank. I am doing this aquarium 75% for me and 25% for my 2 daughters. I do not think I have the time to invest in a reef tank. The live rock is more for decoration and to make it look more like a saltwater aquarium.