can overflow and sump handle 30-40X turnover?

[Serioussnaps]

AR you are answering my questions before you even see my posts--hhhaaaahhaaaaa-------i love it-----appreciated

Ok---here we go-----The bulkhead( i know what a bulkhead is exactly now)---The bulkhead doesnt seem to be smaller than the hole at all AR, but according to marine depot(found those that look like mine) the bh is smaller than the hole, so we will move on from here. I called the guy that plumbed this tank(after digging through my buddy), he said he would usually plumb his tank with the 1" bulkhead and the 1.75" hole. This sounds right for a 55g and what i can observe right now. So lets say these values are the absolute, and at best i will be safe in this assumption by not doing to much. Looking at 600GPH, huh AR? Thats only a 10X turnover, which if running acros and clams will have to be addressed somehow.
----Second, AR i am a master at balancing the pump from sump to fuge next to it and fuge up to main tank. On the tank i run now the water level drops only 1/4" every two days, never had a pump run dry.I think i can do this with some pain in the *** tweaking and the experience i have doing before.(its a ***** to get the pumps to match up, but have done it every time before)---had to go out of town plenty of times only to come back 5 or 6 days later to see that the fuge water depth only dropped about an inch, so i think i am safe. I wouldnt do this on a tank larger than a 90 for fear of disaster, but the with approximately 15 g that could go from the tank to the sump and fuge from siphoning of return and the overflow i wouldnt have a flood just water that was sitting in a tank(albeit it, it has never happened over 2 years)----so lets assume this is taken care of and no concern
---Third---the practical use would be to get as much flow possible throughout the whole tank(i like to make it perfect, it gives me piece of mind) So we address other methods of getting circulation necessary to run acros and clams in this durn small 55g tank.(also the skimmer i would run would be rated much higher than 55g tank would need thus could skim efficiently)
----If i can only run lets say 550-700 gph with this configuration of overflow and sump and dont want to put another overflow or larger sump because space is so confined in a 55g-----------Then what would you suggest my plan of action in this confined space be?----I absolutely want ph's in the display and wouldn't have it any other way. Just trying to get everything perfect from startup so i dont have to tinker later and was considering running this config. -------------The extra pumps i have now that i could run would work at 400gph(about 7.5x turnover). I think i would still like to upgrade them to go about 500(9x turnover) gph but may not be worth the money with only 100 gph increase. Seeing as how this wont be enough movement/circulation for the livestock i am seeking then what ph's in tank would be best for this set up.----------Looked at Tunze6060(1600gph), Tunze 6080(2250gph), Seio1100,1500, 2600----What combination do you think will put my circulation, water movement, flow etc... at optimum levels in a 55g. I want to do it right, not get by , but have the SPS thrive and do so in a small 55g tank. Will these ph's cause water to push through the overflow faster or just cause a serious wave like motion in the 55g. Keep in mind i want to keep Acros, clams and maybe some pulsing xenia in the 55g. I dont want to have the in tank powerheads blowing rocks through the front of the 55g.LMAO, that would be some ****.

---Sorry so long winded, but i feel its better than making 20 posts and gives more to brainstorm about.

 

[Serioussnaps]

And, do you think with the in tank ph's and the weak sump etc. circulation and return that i could keep acros very successfully in these small confines?

 

[Serioussnaps]

Also, looking at the eheims. Eheim 1262 is 900 GPH and uses 80 watts for 130 bucks. The mag9.5 is pushing 950gph(these are max. values of course) and uses 93 watts for 70 bucks. Easy decision here. The eheim costs almost double for less flow and only 13 less watts. Seems like an easy winner-----mag. 13 Watts is not gonna bother me. The power bill it will be negligible so the fact that i could use a tunze for those extra watts is a moot point. The eheim costs double where i could use the extra money of a mag for that high dollar tunze.

 

[Serioussnaps]

Do you think with such strong flow in a 55g that the substrate will get thrown around in a frenzy if it is oolitic? With the large powerheads in small confines do you think that the flow will be toooo concentrated on one area of the reef which may cause problems, or do you think the acros could stand up to it?

 

[zapata41]

well with all that you have said in the prior post here is what i would do.

knowing that you are never gonna get more than 400-500 gph through the bulkhead go with the 400 gph return pump that you have. balance the two pumps as you like since you seem dead set on it. then run a scwd on your return to give you some random flow since all the powerheads you listed are not controllable. either run 4 maxi 1200 on a wakemaker , again nice random current that will be like by the sps more than strong laminar flow, or get a tunze stream 6000 or 6100 on a single controller. if you go the tunze stream route then you can probably nix the scwd.

no amount of powerheads in the display will ever affect the overflows performance so we can stop beating that around.

i would run the eheim but then again i have only ran a mag 5 ( absolutely hate it ) and a QO4000 really really hate it. but if you wanna run a mag 5 and then run a stream then that is good too.

for the seios i would say no. one main reason is, they are big and the 2600 is HUGE.

for the substrate concern, just by the stream and a controller and then be able to dial it back if you have any problems with sand flying all over.

also make sure to allow plenty of room in the sump for power failure and the water that will return from the display to the sumps.

oh and if you dont go with the stream, then go with the maxi jets on a wakemaker. they are small and wont create too much flow from one point source like a seio will and you can get nice random flow from 4 or more of them

Tim

 

[sjm817]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6964047#post6964047 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps
Also, looking at the eheims. Eheim 1262 is 900 GPH and uses 80 watts for 130 bucks. The mag9.5 is pushing 950gph(these are max. values of course) and uses 93 watts for 70 bucks. Easy decision here. The eheim costs almost double for less flow and only 13 less watts. Seems like an easy winner-----mag. 13 Watts is not gonna bother me. The power bill it will be negligible so the fact that i could use a tunze for those extra watts is a moot point. The eheim costs double where i could use the extra money of a mag for that high dollar tunze.

Don't confuse rated flow and actual flow. The 1262 will easily outflow a Mag9.5. More-so, it will do that with 3/4" plumbing while the Mag9.5 needs 1.5" fire hose to produce less flow. Same with the Eheim 1260 vs the Mag7, and 1250 Vs Mag3. Ehiem has better actual flow due to superior head loss performance and is also MUCH quieter.

My Eheim 1260 blows away the Mag7 I had in flow and you can barely even tell it's on.

Eheim is in the same class of products as Tunze and Deltec. You pay a little more for a superior product. Well worth it.

 

[Serioussnaps]

Thanks for your insight SJM.

 

[Serioussnaps]

Thanks again zapata. Pretty sure i got it all figured out. Either drill the tank with bigger hole(s) and bulkheads/more plumbing, overflows etc.... -----Get controllable Tunzes. Havent used in a small tank, but if i dont like it i can always sell a Tunze.LOL---Have run maxi jets on timers but not on a wavemaker on a past tank with some success in a small tank, but wasnt keeping SPS in it. I think I'll go with controllable Tunze and a couple of maxi jet9's stuck in dead spots.
---As for the return i have never ran an eheim, so i won't comment on them. I like the mag's i have ran because when you turn them off, they start back up 100% of the time guarranteed, now an eheim might as well, but i dont know.
----Always make sure there is room in the sump, always have always will(learned hard way).
--I think controllable Tunze is the way to go. Seio would put much more heat into the water versus performance and I dont want to see a maxi jet littered reef that would be otherwise beautiful.

Thanks for all your suggestions and input.

 

[jacmyoung]

I used a Mag12 before and now an Eheim 1262, about the same flow power. Eheim always had good review and is worth the money, just like buying a Tunze.

My Mag12 was a good work horse but added too much heat to the tank.

 

[hahnmeister]

One of the reasons that the eheim makes more flow than a Mag12 is because all those flow ratings for german pumps are according to 50Hz 220v current. That 1262 (I have a couple myself, and I gotta add...they cost more but are still worth every penny) pushes about 1100-1200gph on US 110v 60Hz current according to my calculations.

The Mag will prolly stop working after a couple years, and make its intentions loud and clear along the way. I have had eheims running w/o impeller changes now going on 18years...dead silent and still going strong. I had one break after 15 years...the ceramic shaft was actually worn through. I replaced the shaft, and its working just like day one. These pumps will save you many times their cost in the long run. Not even Tunzes have a record even close to that (how many people have had theirs seize up now....??? I know 3 personally).

Also, my link to that other article should be taken very seriously. Low flow sumps, with 1-5x the tank volume per hour have multiple advantages. Less overflow noise, less salt spray, less microbubbles, less wattage, less heat transfer to the tank, less pump noise & wear, increased skimmer performance by feeding it only the most protein rich top layers of the tank, and easier plumbing.

And in case you think pumps dont cost much ocmpared to lighting, you might want to consider that pumps are on 24/7, and lights are on 6-10 hours prolly. I know many people running multiple pumps at 300watts a piece to get decent flow through their sumps & closed loops...which adds up fast. One buddy of mine was running 1200 watts in pumps when we added it up! Heck, his lighting is only 1200 watts!!! Now, his lights are only on 7-8 hours per day...but the pumps are always running!!!

Since then we have re-worked his tanks a bit. Tunze streams ands SEIOs in the tanks have reduced his pump's collective wattage to around 300watts. His large & cheap Mag pumps (mag 18s and 24s) have been replaced with a single 150watt pumps that feeds alll 3 of his tanks with just enough flow to give 2-3x turnover. His tank temps have also dropped down so he doesnt even need a chiller in summer anymore. Thats a big deal.

 

[jacmyoung]

My mag12 actually had a little more flow than my Eheim1262 but close enough to say they are the same. There are also many who reported Mags lasting many years, and my Mag12 was just as quite as the Eheim1262.

The only issue for me was Mag12 was running hotter than Eheim (used more watts) and the Eheim lowered my tank temp by about 3 degrees. I hope that will be enough to get the tank through the summer without a chiller. And of course Eheim has its reputation for quality.

But I agree that energy consumption is more and more an issue than before, even if your electricity is cheap, the idea that you can do the same job with 1/3 of the energy can't be a bad thing. After all it is a sign of high quality and management skill we so want to display by having a reef tank in the first place, even if you have no environmental concern at all.

Now if only Tunze can make their pumps less of an eye sore, it would be a perfect world to live in

 

[Serioussnaps]

---First off---I dont plan on running this 55g tank for 18 years anyways. I have a large tank full of LPS, softies yada yada yada and have kept a larger SPS tank. I dont have an SPS tank at the moment, but want a small one, hence my buddy's 55g. I am almost 100% sure that in 15 years we will have advancements so great that we will laugh at the current equipment making that argument assanine.
------However, do you folks really experience that much of a temperature difference with the Eheim's. I am going to do everything possible to avoid buying a chiller for just a 55g reef. Sounds like overkill.With 2 175's or 2-250's i havent decided, maybe these pumps will help me in the short term with heat.
-----I am going to go with the 400 gph through the sump/fuge which is about 7 x turnover( have done this on a 55g and skimmer worked wonders, albeit this was about 5 years ago) and the Tunze controllables in tank. I appreciate all of your input.
---Will look into the eheims, since tank temp will be an issue with MH lighting and the small tank without a chiller.

 

[Serioussnaps]

---First off---I dont plan on running this 55g tank for 18 years anyways. I have a large tank full of LPS, softies yada yada yada and have kept a larger SPS tank. I dont have an SPS tank at the moment, but want a small one, hence my buddy's 55g. I am almost 100% sure that in 15 years we will have advancements so great that we will laugh at the current equipment making that argument assanine.
------However, do you folks really experience that much of a temperature difference with the Eheim's. I am going to do everything possible to avoid buying a chiller for just a 55g reef. Sounds like overkill.With 2 175's or 2-250's i havent decided, maybe these pumps will help me in the short term with heat.
-----I am going to go with the 400 gph through the sump/fuge which is about 7 x turnover( have done this on a 55g and skimmer worked wonders, albeit this was about 5 years ago) and the Tunze controllables in tank. I appreciate all of your input.
---Will look into the eheims, since tank temp will be an issue with MH lighting and the small tank without a chiller.

 

[sjm817]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6970173#post6970173 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps

-----I am going to go with the 400 gph through the sump/fuge which is about 7 x turnover( have done this on a 55g and skimmer worked wonders, albeit this was about 5 years ago) and the Tunze controllables in tank. I appreciate all of your input.
---Will look into the eheims, since tank temp will be an issue with MH lighting and the small tank without a chiller.

The 1260 would be good for that GPH.

 

[hahnmeister]

"Now if only Tunze can make their pumps less of an eye sore, it would be a perfect world to live in" - jacmyoung

Just wanted to check...you have seen Icecap's new vortech pumps, right?

"I am almost 100% sure that in 15 years we will have advancements so great that we will laugh at the current equipment making that argument assanine"

Serioussnaps, you might eat those words in 15 years. Some things in this hobby do change rather fast, but some stay very much the same. While Im sure that lighting technology will change, a pump is a pump, is a pump. And there are laws of physics going on with these things. The eheim hasnt changed much in the past 20 years, and still is a top performer. So while some things might change...there are some things that will stay very much the same as they have...like heaters, pumps, tank construction, stands, sumps, overflows, etc. I didnt think those eheims would last (I just didnt care at the time I should say) that long...but it sure is nice that they did.

 

[jacmyoung]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6970776#post6970776 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
"Now if only Tunze can make their pumps less of an eye sore, it would be a perfect world to live in" - jacmyoung

Just wanted to check...you have seen Icecap's new vortech pumps, right?

...

What you know after I made that comment about Tunze pump, I did a search and stumbled on the Icecap Vortech, looked very promising other than the steep price. But it is now on the menu.

 

[zapata41]

naps, go with teh 175w lighting for the tank and run the new iwaski 14ks, they really kick arse, better par, when ran on an icecap ballast, than any 10K 175w ran on a electronic ballast.

sorry to be kinda off topic but i recently gotthe bulb and ballast combo and absolutely love it

Tim