can you help me go skimmerless?

[srusso]

Additionally the Smithsonian institute aquarium known as the National Aquarium runs an algae turf scrubber. Their system is massive I am sure, that is a stigma that need to be broken for the home aquarium. the work algae scrubber net and santamonica has done to research screen size, light placement and wattage, and water flow

If people haven't seen a water treatment facility

That image is from http://www.algalturfscrubber.com/

 

[srusso]

By the way, you'll see a much wider adoption of turf scrubbers when there are viable commercial versions available. And they'll likely have a cost on the order of skimmers.

Jeff

By the way the algae turf scrubber is patented... I dont think anyone will be making them commercially any time soon... :blown:

 

[srusso]

Also here is a quote from the algal turf scrubber site...

"...the ATS algal product can also be converted to paper and construction materials and can be used to sequester carbon and heavy metals as well as break-down toxic hydrocarbons. ATS-produced algae can be converted to energy products such as biodiesel, gasohol and methane."

 

[skyshrimp]

Wow I go to work over night and you all are gettin some good ...debating goin on here..lol. well just an update for you all. The gha and bryopsis that algaefix could not kill is slowly losing its iron grip on my rocks now. I can tell the ats is having a positive effect on my tank so far, because I never got results like this till my scrubber was put on my system. I still need to buy stronger cfl spiral bulbs(45 or 60 watt) and then I think the algae on my scrubber will really take off. But I thank you all for keeping a eye on my thread and helping me and hope you continue to do so.

 

[KafudaFish]

So it seems that most here are either or on which way to go.

Does anyone run both?

 

[srusso]

Wow I go to work over night and you all are gettin some good ...debating goin on here..lol. well just an update for you all. The gha and bryopsis that algaefix could not kill is slowly losing its iron grip on my rocks now. I can tell the ats is having a positive effect on my tank so far, because I never got results like this till my scrubber was put on my system. I still need to buy stronger cfl spiral bulbs(45 or 60 watt) and then I think the algae on my scrubber will really take off. But I thank you all for keeping a eye on my thread and helping me and hope you continue to do so.

Hang with the lights you have. slow and steady wins the race... :frog:
Over doing the lights will not help the scrubber. If you increase lights, you have to increase flow and screen... balance is the key.

One thing you could do is turn off the light on the display for a day or two. Or shorten the time in half.
PLEASE POST BEFORE AND AFTER PICS!!

 

[srusso]

So it seems that most here are either or on which way to go.

Does anyone run both?

Most that run both haven't quite learned to completely trust their scrubbers yet. More than likely they added the scrubber after the fact like in this case. Once their algae problems are gone that would rather not touch anything for fear of the algae problems returning.

What people need to understand is algae is your warning sign and your tanks "air bag". Without the algae you would surely have a lot of dead fish and coral.

 

[srusso]

One thing we need to discuss is the amount of food one needs to start feeding once their ATS has matured. I have a 70 gallon tank with a frags and medium stocked with fish. I have been feeding 1 cube a day... after today I have realized that I need to be feeding more. Some days I feed two cubes a day. With a double sized scrubber I have made. my fish could be eating loads more food.

So with a scrubber you can:

1) feed loads of food - I think everyone likes that
2) overstock your tank - Why not?!
3) Keep harder fish... I now have two mandarins and a sixline
(Have had the male mandarin for 3 months he is so fat! I will post a pic)
(Got second mandarin a week ago, she is living in the sump for now to fattin' up)
4) Corals get food all day, b/c I don't have a skimmer removing food all day
5) Does less Ca, KH, Mg, etc... your skimmer is removing some of that stuff

I will think of more things later... :lol:

 

[KafudaFish]

I guess I don't see algae as evil like most do since it is a natural part of the reef. All the ATS is doing is providing the optimal environment for the "bad" algae to grow and this allows the reefer to remove it i.e. cleaning a screen vs. pulling a rock out and cleaning it.

No algae no life.

I was simply thinking that both are used to get to an end point but both follow different paths.

If one was more efficient than the other then by using both it would be easier to cover all bases as well as getting a better handle on the system when issues arise.

 

[srusso]

I guess I don't see algae as evil like most do since it is a natural part of the reef. All the ATS is doing is providing the optimal environment for the "bad" algae to grow and this allows the reefer to remove it i.e. cleaning a screen vs. pulling a rock out and cleaning it.

You got it! That is true, however once the screen matures it stops growing hair algae and then starts growing "turf" algae. That stuff it the bomb! :blown:

I was simply thinking that both are used to get to an end point but both follow different paths.

If one was more efficient than the other then by using both it would be easier to cover all bases as well as getting a better handle on the system when issues arise.

This would be true if skimmers didn't do the following...
1) Sometimes Overflow, spilling nasty skimate back into the tank... or in your house! eeewwwww!
2) Stop working when oily foods are fed
3) Kill massive amounts of pods and other small life...
4) Go crazy when some types of chemicals are added (meds... etc)
5) Need to be completely cleaned every 6 months...
6) Did I mention skimate is really nasty stuff... you ever smell it?!

When cleaning a scrubber you just smell a light ocean scent... its like being at the beach! I almost enjoy it :lol:

That reminds me, today is cleaning day for my scrubber, I will post a picture of my harvest! I will even try to measure it.

 

[syrinx]

I don`t use a algae turf filter on my skimmerless tanks, as it is uneeded. My refugium does all thats needed. I have spoken to DR Addy many times over the years about the scrubbers-and have been familiar with them since their inception. I never drank the koolaid on them,but they do work well- just that the complexity is not needed when cheato will do the same thing.

 

[rysher]

I don`t use a algae turf filter on my skimmerless tanks, as it is uneeded. My refugium does all thats needed. I have spoken to DR Addy many times over the years about the scrubbers-and have been familiar with them since their inception. I never drank the koolaid on them,but they do work well- just that the complexity is not needed when cheato will do the same thing.

can you pls tell me the size tank you have and its load?
thank you.

i was really looking at jsut a refuge with chaeto and mangroves, then i stumble on the ATS because of the title (i dont have the budget to buy a skimmer).so i went to algaescrubber and read eveything i can about it.
however, if my ATS works,,,,i'm never buying a skimmer.
maybe i'll try chaeto/mangrove first, then do ATS after and compare teh results.

 

[srusso]

I don`t use a algae turf filter on my skimmerless tanks, as it is uneeded. My refugium does all thats needed. I have spoken to DR Addy many times over the years about the scrubbers-and have been familiar with them since their inception. I never drank the koolaid on them,but they do work well- just that the complexity is not needed when cheato will do the same thing.

Refugiums, are very similar in how they work... as you know. They also can be a very cool second display tank. However I believe an algae scrubber not only to be more effective, it takes up less space. Additionally, I have plans to turn the sump my ATS hangs over into a refuge! I will have an extra space for fish to breed, fish fry will have a place they can eat and grow. All along the refuge will be supplied with millions of pods daily by my ATS hanging above it. Seems like a win win to me! Better still the tank already has the lighting needed to run a refuge.

 

[srusso]

can you pls tell me the size tank you have and its load?
thank you.

i was really looking at jsut a refuge with chaeto and mangroves, then i stumble on the ATS because of the title (i dont have the budget to buy a skimmer).so i went to algaescrubber and read eveything i can about it.
however, if my ATS works,,,,i'm never buying a skimmer.
maybe i'll try chaeto/mangrove first, then do ATS after and compare teh results.

Just a thought... you can build an ATS for about $15... it maybe easier to start with that. But after this thread, now I want both because I am mud and some livestock away from having that also.

 

[rysher]

Just a thought... you can build an ATS for about $15... it maybe easier to start with that. But after this thread, now I want both because I am mud and some livestock away from having that also.

srusso, help me out.
i already had my sump built, i built it myself.
with the layout: [drain]>[refuge]>[return]
now if i'm going to add the scrubber let us say 5x5 (1 sq inch pg, i shuld have an 8x5 for a 40gal)
if i'm going to put a scrubber on my return area, then let the scrubbed water flow thru the refuge and to the return pump, it would still work right? filtering is just redundant right?

 

[frankpayne32]

Would those people that run an ATS and do not use a protein skimmer please post current pictures of their tanks? I have heard a lot of good and bad about using the scrubbers but the proof is in the pudding and I would like to actually see real world examples not just read about what people think. So, please, all those out there that run ATS please post photos of your tanks. This should only help sway people to your side of the argument.

 

[srusso]

srusso, help me out.
i already had my sump built, i built it myself.
with the layout: [drain]>[refuge]>[return]
now if i'm going to add the scrubber let us say 5x5 (1 sq inch pg, i shuld have an 8x5 for a 40gal)
if i'm going to put a scrubber on my return area, then let the scrubbed water flow thru the refuge and to the return pump, it would still work right? filtering is just redundant right?

I would be happy to help

For a 40 gallon:
you should build a 8x8 inch screen with a 23w CFL bulb on one side. The screen should hang vertical. Water should trickle over the screen evenly as possible. Be sure to rough up the screen as much as possible, this allows for maximum algae growth. (think cactus or Velcro).

Your homework... Read the FAQ on algae scrubber net

 

[srusso]

Would those people that run an ATS and do not use a protein skimmer please post current pictures of their tanks? I have heard a lot of good and bad about using the scrubbers but the proof is in the pudding and I would like to actually see real world examples not just read about what people think. So, please, all those out there that run ATS please post photos of your tanks. This should only help sway people to your side of the argument.

The MH is on right now... So the colors aren't popping right now.
How's that for pudding? Also check out my photo album. My tank is 6 months old so my corals are still just frags and are hard to see in this picture.

 

[Mandragen]

Yeah, I really like this idea, but I'm not seeing anything that a refugium with chaeto can not do. It's all about providing an area where selected algae can grow to out compete algae in the DT, simple concept, different ways to achieve results.

 

[rysher]

I would be happy to help

For a 40 gallon:
you should build a 8x8 inch screen with a 23w CFL bulb on one side. The screen should hang vertical. Water should trickle over the screen evenly as possible. Be sure to rough up the screen as much as possible, this allows for maximum algae growth. (think cactus or Velcro).

Your homework... Read the FAQ on algae scrubber net

i was already on that site and read what i can absorb.

my question is, can i run half the size of my scrubber and let the refuge do the rest?