srusso
Active member
Seeing as I have never run a refuge, I am not sure I am qualified to answer that question.
In theory that should be fine, good luck :beachbum:
can you help me go skimmerless?
- Thread starter skyshrimp
- Start date
Seeing as I have never run a refuge, I am not sure I am qualified to answer that question.
In theory that should be fine, good luck :beachbum:
Mandragen
New member
I would say yes, I think in this situation it's about understanding the concept. If you think about it, in the DT if you have algae growth, it's just a different surface area with different algae. There are more phosphate/elements in the system than your refuge can handle, so it's got to find some other place to go. If you were to add one of these, it would in affect be the same thing, you are just controling the spot to harvest the algae, a different surface area with different algae growth.
srusso
Active member
Now I will do some research on the comparisons of ATS and refuges.
I wanna restate that fact that my tank has "ZERO" PO4 and NO3...
I am not sure if that could be said for tanks with refuges
Additionally, my ATS sees 100% of the water the enters the sump, a chaeto refuge cant say the same.
I will post my findings on the comparison, when i am done with the research.
I would say that using having both would allow you to setup more of a "display refuge". Because your refuge is filled with chaeto, it has not room for fish to swim etc... Which is what my new plans will be. I am going to modify my ATS system have refuge mud, some sea grasses and make it a new display tank under main tank. I plan to attempt to breed fish in this tank.
The tank I have in my living room is 65 gallons- 2x175 halides and a couple vho actinics. 20 gallon sump full of cheato with a 70 watt halide. mag 18 on a sqwd full open. animals are general soft corals-lps-not much sps just montis and porites. Also a long tent anemone. The youngest coral in this tank is 4 years- most are much older. fish are breeding pair of maroon clowns, bi color blenny, purple pseudochromis. Parameters are same as my skimmer tanks-0 phos or nitrate. As long as a tank is balanced- it doesnt matter what you use-turf, skimmer,or cheato. My refugium isn`t really even in the class of a refugium being the flow it sees. But my tank has as much micro fauna as it can handle. I do think this tank is doing better since I took the skimmer off long ago- but its hard to say that a proper sized skimmer would have not been a good choice instead. I originally had a etss that really stripped the water.
srusso
Active member
Do you really need a MH for a refuge? Seems like a lot, power usage!
srusso
Active member
I have grown tired of finding reasons why an ATS is better... if you wanna try one I will be happy to answer questions on how to build it... it cost me $15.... beat that....
Whats your skimmer cost to purchase pump and all, and run...
Whats it cost your refuge to run, mud, lights and maybe pumps.
The guy asked how he could go skimmerless... I told him how I do it... also told a few guys not to makeup facts abouts ATS's that have never done research or built one for themselves...
IMHO it has been a great thread, helpfully its cleared the air a bit about ATS...
:hmm3: :spin2:
Whats your skimmer cost to purchase pump and all, and run...
Whats it cost your refuge to run, mud, lights and maybe pumps.
The guy asked how he could go skimmerless... I told him how I do it... also told a few guys not to makeup facts abouts ATS's that have never done research or built one for themselves...
IMHO it has been a great thread, helpfully its cleared the air a bit about ATS...
:hmm3: :spin2:
bshumake
New member
I'm going to give ATS a try after reading this thread and visiting algaescrubber.net. Thanks for starting this thread skyshrimp. Since I've got a lot of what I need already as various parts in the garage I was wondering if I could use a sheet of 1/8th acrylic instead of the perforated screen the ATS builds call for. How necessary are the holes in the screen? If all your needing is a frame for the turf to cling to I would think a roughed-up sheet of acrylic would be fine. Any thoughts?
Mandragen
New member
I agree as stated before it's all about balance, and many ways to achieve that balance. I'm not saying anything negative about ATS, this is the first time I have heard of them and think they are a great idea! I think at some point I might try them, but there are pleanty of tanks that can do the same with a refugium, and if you put the refugium in the middle, between the drain and the return, yes all the water goes through the refugium, just like the ATS. The ATS is just a refugium suspended in the air above the sump, which is genius for space saving! 
+1 on this being an excellent thread!
+1 on this being an excellent thread!
what type of algae grows on the ATS? is it a hair algae? I've got a 90 gallon SPS tank with a 30 gallon sump broken into a skimmer area, frag tank (lit by halide) and a fuge section with chaeto lit by a spiral bulb. It works awesome, I pull over a softball sized thing of chaeto out each week. My problem is that ive got some hair algae growing. It grows all over my frag tank area, all over the frags, some on the chaeto ball and a little bit in the display. I run GFO too. Just wondering if I added a ATS would it reduce some of the hair algae?
spamreefnew
New member
BSH use the plastic canvas it's dirt cheap at the craft stores and much better
srusso
Active member
Yeah, I must say it will cost you a dollar... I think you may find acrylic hard to work with once the screen matures. But hey, I used splinting material to make my screen and it is working for now. But I have thought many times of switching to what is commonly used.
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srusso
Active member
I agree as stated before it's all about balance, and many ways to achieve that balance. I'm not saying anything negative about ATS, this is the first time I have heard of them and think they are a great idea! I think at some point I might try them, but there are pleanty of tanks that can do the same with a refugium, and if you put the refugium in the middle, between the drain and the return, yes all the water goes through the refugium, just like the ATS. The ATS is just a refugium suspended in the air above the sump, which is genius for space saving!
+1 on this being an excellent thread!
sorry, I may have been short fused about 2 hours of shoveling... got 18" of snow yesterday. :lol2:
srusso
Active member
I would say it will remove all of the hair algae. If build properly for your tanks, it will enable you to remove that GFO, the skimmer, the chaeto, any carbon you add... etc. The screen will grown hair algae at first, and about 6 months to a year "turf algae" will began to grow. Because of how the algae is grown, on a vertical screen with so much exposure to air and direct light it will out complete any algae in your tank. If you want to build a test system an ATS can be build a bucket. Makes it easy to build and even a bit portable if need be...
srusso
Active member
One thing I never mentioned is that pre-grown screens can be purchased from Inland Aquatics. As far as I know this is the only place to purchase pre-grown screens. I have never used or purchased one but I have been thinking about doing so lately. However I must admit, its fun to see your screen mature. As it regrows more and more algae each week.
skyshrimp
New member
yea before my scrubber I noticed that if I overfed my tank hair algae would take off in days but now with my ats I've been feed a bunches more(flakes, mysis, krill, etc). the gha is receding came back home just now from work and I can notice even more gha receding and turning pale. screen is getting powder green with gha strings now. wish I can post pcics through my phone some way but cant figure it out.
frankpayne32
New member
The MH is on right now... So the colors aren't popping right now.
How's that for pudding? Also check out my photo album. My tank is 6 months old so my corals are still just frags and are hard to see in this picture.
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I think you would agree that six months is far too short a time to claim success for ANY method of tank maintenance. While there is certainly nothing wrong with your tank, I personally am striving for something of higher quality (no offense meant). My own goal is to strive for a TOTM quality tank and I have yet to see a tank of that quality and longevity without a protein skimmer. I am certainly open to the idea that it is possible I just haven't seen an example yet. Again, thanks for taking the time to post a picture of your tank. Would anyone else running an ATS sans protein skimmer post pics of your tank please? I am especially interested in tanks doing it for at least a reasonable length of time (at minimum a year and preferably longer).
frankpayne32
New member
It is supposed to be turf algae. Which is a type of algae that grows very quickly and incorporates alot of nutrients as it grows.
srusso
Active member
I understand the age of my tank will not conclude that I have successfully run a tank without a skimmer. However SantaMonica on algae scrubber net will truly answer this question straight away.
http://algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=91
Also here are videos of his tank
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUl8FIQAxr0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58pOisX2vSs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDZtHf-xXCc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMdllQSKU2c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtvF0ZbVX7w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOIx09XWYCo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7TnVm19td4
srusso
Active member
My findings as well as others show that only once a scrubber screen has matured does actual "turf algae" take hold and began to grow as you described.
From memory I believe this to be true because turf algae needs to take root on your screen before it will flourish, and grow. (again as you described)
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