Cannot get Nitrates down-advice please, so frustrated

[Zoregon]

As the title says - they will not go down!!

The details:
180 gal with sump, Curve 7 skimmer with chaeto.

Sal - 1.024
Temp - 78 - 79
Mag - 1260
Alk - 8.3
Cal - 370
Phos - 0
Nitrate - 50

Tank was set up and cycled in August.

Inhabitants:
2 - Blood Shrimp
2 - Cleaner Shrimp
1 - Yellow Watchman Goby
1 - Striped Aura Goby
4 - Clownfish
1 - Foxface (med)
1 - Yellow Tang (med)
1 - Purple Tang ( med)
1 - Naso Tang (sml)
10 Nasarrius (sp?) snails, 20 Turbo snails

Tank is fully stocked as far as I'm concerned and will not be adding more fish.

A couple leathers and some hammer coral is the extent at this time for coral as there's no point in adding anything else until I can get the nitrates under control.

There is a small amount of algae on the back glass but none anywhere else. Tested with both Salifert and Red Sea.

40 Gal water changes every Sunday and sandbed vacuumed, RO/DI water only. RO/DI water tests 0 nitrates and 0 ppm.

Feeding LRS Reef Frenzy 2x day plus nori every other day.

Have added two boxes of MarinePure balls and Chemipure Blue with no effect on nitrates. Have been using AZ-No3 for 3 weeks with no effect except the skimmer pulling more gunk.

Also have flatworms, but looking to getting nitrates under control first and managing with siphoning at this time. It's not an infestation - yet.....

This tank has had high nitrates since set up - I've gotten them down to 15 once with a massive water change. They went right back up within 3 days.

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated - I really feel like I'm banging my head against a wall and my 'coral fund' is burning a hole in my pocket ....

 

[Ulendon]

What method are you using to test for nitrates?

 

[vhuang168]

The only export I see for nitrates are the water changes and the AZ-No3 (which I take to be a form of carbon dosing?).

Increasing the dosing or reducing the feeding till you see a drop in nitrates will be your best course of action if you don't want to implement an ATS or run a refugium.


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[Zoregon]

I do have a refugium in my sump and harvest a large amount of chaeto weekly. What is an ATS please?

 

[vhuang168]

Algae Turf Scrubber




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[Tanthaitrung]

I think your skimmer is not enough. People use the double skimmer with tank size, even triple.

Do 50% water change regularly, reduce feeding will help

 

[Dkuhlmann]

As the title says - they will not go down!!

The details:
180 gal with sump, Curve 7 skimmer with chaeto.

Sal - 1.024
Temp - 78 - 79
Mag - 1260
Alk - 8.3
Cal - 370
Phos - 0
Nitrate - 50

Tank was set up and cycled in August.

Inhabitants:
2 - Blood Shrimp
2 - Cleaner Shrimp
1 - Yellow Watchman Goby
1 - Striped Aura Goby
4 - Clownfish
1 - Foxface (med)
1 - Yellow Tang (med)
1 - Purple Tang ( med)
1 - Naso Tang (sml)
10 Nasarrius (sp?) snails, 20 Turbo snails

Tank is fully stocked as far as I'm concerned and will not be adding more fish.

A couple leathers and some hammer coral is the extent at this time for coral as there's no point in adding anything else until I can get the nitrates under control.

There is a small amount of algae on the back glass but none anywhere else. Tested with both Salifert and Red Sea.

40 Gal water changes every Sunday and sandbed vacuumed, RO/DI water only. RO/DI water tests 0 nitrates and 0 ppm.

Feeding LRS Reef Frenzy 2x day plus nori every other day.

Have added two boxes of MarinePure balls and Chemipure Blue with no effect on nitrates. Have been using AZ-No3 for 3 weeks with no effect except the skimmer pulling more gunk.

Also have flatworms, but looking to getting nitrates under control first and managing with siphoning at this time. It's not an infestation - yet.....

This tank has had high nitrates since set up - I've gotten them down to 15 once with a massive water change. They went right back up within 3 days.

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated - I really feel like I'm banging my head against a wall and my 'coral fund' is burning a hole in my pocket ....

Stop vacuuming your sandbed, that is most likely the source of much of your nitrates. I agree with what's been said as to the amount of WC should be 50% in order to move the nitrates down enough to be helpful. Anything less than 50% won't make the numbers fall much at all. Also agree with your skimmer not being sufficient for your size tank. IMO need to be double your tank size or at least close to double.

 

[Rybren]

Note that there is an issue with some of the Salifert colour cards. With mine, a reading of 50ppm is actually ~10ppm (verified with a nitrate reference sample). I've never used the Red Sea kit.

 

[Tanthaitrung]

Note that there is an issue with some of the Salifert colour cards. With mine, a reading of 50ppm is actually ~10ppm (verified with a nitrate reference sample). I've never used the Red Sea kit.

There are medium and low range. For the medium range, looking color from the TOP and compare color. For the low range, looking through the SIDE, then divide the color chart value by 10

 

[Tanthaitrung]

If needing a suggestion for skimmer, manufacturers always recommend the double size. Except, Bubble King

 

[Tanthaitrung]

Stop vacuuming your sandbed

Could you please explain, why stopping vacuuming the sandbed?

I used to have problem with NO3. Vacuuming helped, but finally, removed all. Now bare bottom

 

[ericarenee]

I have to ask about Your live rock and sand.

Where did you get it, How was it cured and what type is it.

I think GFO is your best bet to get it down . If you are certain your test results are correct something might be leaching either rock or sand...

Also if your sand bad is shallow cleaning it ok If its a deep sand bed prob not so much ... There are huge mixed opinions on that one..

I clean the sand bed in my tank but not the DEEP SAND BEDS IN Buckets in my sump.. DEEP SAND BED IN A BUCKET in your sump could be a long term solution but it takes time for it to be effective ..

 

[Rybren]

There are medium and low range. For the medium range, looking color from the TOP and compare color. For the low range, looking through the SIDE, then divide the color chart value by 10

I know.

That's not the issue. There is a problem with the colors on the card. Habib, the owner of Salifert has acknowledged the issue and thinks that it may be an issue with the printing company. Unfortunately, he stopped posting in the various threads about it and also stopped replying to PMs.

 

[Zoregon]

I started cleaning the sandbed to see if that was the source. It was full of brown detritus. It did not change the nitrates but was nasty. Sandbed is about 2 -3" depending on location in the tank.
I have 125lbs of rock. 1/2 was dry pukani, 1/2 was LR - but the crappiest LR I've ever seen. I have no lfs so rock was ordered online. It was sold as cured but my levels were crazy high when cycling. I've also added two boxes of the biopure to my sump for more surface area.

The skimmer pulls a fair amount of skimmate. About 1/4 of the cup per day skimming wet.
How can I tell if it's undersized? It was rated to 220g so I thought I was okay?

Also I have to change my filter sock daily as it clogs and is brown within 24 hrs - could this be another sign of undersized skimmer?

Thanks so much for helping!

 

[ericarenee]

I started cleaning the sandbed to see if that was the source. It was full of brown detritus. It did not change the nitrates but was nasty. Sandbed is about 2 -3" depending on location in the tank.
I have 125lbs of rock. 1/2 was dry pukani, 1/2 was LR - but the crappiest LR I've ever seen. I have no lfs so rock was ordered online. It was sold as cured but my levels were crazy high when cycling. I've also added two boxes of the biopure to my sump for more surface area.

The skimmer pulls a fair amount of skimmate. About 1/4 of the cup per day skimming wet.
How can I tell if it's undersized? It was rated to 220g so I thought I was okay?

Also I have to change my filter sock daily as it clogs and is brown within 24 hrs - could this be another sign of undersized skimmer?

Thanks so much for helping!

This is known to leach nutrients if not treated properly before you add it from what i have read. Thou i am not a expert on this because i have NEVER used it... You might wanna do a search on here about that rock.. Also if your sand bed is that dirty i suspect you are over feeding

There really is not a one thing fix solution for this.. I think its going to be GFO Water changes and adjust your feeding. sometimes adjusting what you feed helps as well.. I had a nitrate issue when i was feeding the frozen cubes.. i switched to large packages of mysis and i rinse it with aquarium water before i feed . this helped my issue ...

Nutrients make us all :headwalls: at times. but if we tackle it with several methods and stick with it eventually you will be all:celeb1:
Good Luck :wavehand:

 

[TheOtherDB]

I'm more of an aesthetics hobbyist than technical, but I'll throw this out there for whatever it is worth.

I had a 65 gal reef tank way back in the 80s that I gave up on after two years of battling algae. I swore to myself that I'd never do it again.

Two years ago I found myself setting up a pico tank, 5 gallons, stocked with a damsel and a colony of about 10 zoathid polyps. I did daily water changes of about a gallon. Nitrates stayed below detectable levels and hair algae was present but manageable.

After some struggles as I evolved the tank; adding more life, doubling capacity to 10 gallons, adding a refugium ... I was about to give up again as the algae problem began to get ahead of my ability to fight it. Nitrates were not as high as yours, but they were not 0.

Since that time, I've moved to a 35 gallon tank with a ~9 gallon refugium. What's different in this set up is that I have a healthy saw calurpa "forrest" growing under 24/7 grow lights in the refuge/sump.

I vacuum 5" of crushed coral substrate weekly, change 5 gals of water weekly, and use about 60 square inches of poly filter in the filter sock and on top of the sponge filter in the weir. I switched from a felt sock to a mesh to abate the same clogging issue you describe. I trim out about 25% of the calurpa once a month. I feed twice a day across a variety of foods ranging from dry pellets to spirulina enriched frozen brine shrimp and strips of nori about twice a week.

I have a cleanup crew that includes red trochus, zombie snails, an emerald crab and a long spined urchin. Some hitch hikers like a stomatella, some brittle stars and astorina stars are also among the mix.

I would consider my 35g tank to be heavily populated ... 5 fish, a dozen corals, a 'nem and some 'shrooms along with all the crew listed above.

My nitrates dropped off the scale, and have remained at 0 for going on 9 months.

I know that every tank is different, the above is working for me, and has renewed my interest in a hobby that I thought I would never get back in to.

In any case, best of luck. I feel your pain! Maybe something up there will spawn an idea?

db
~

 

[Zoregon]

I'm wondering. Can an insufficient cuc be part of the cause?

I have about 10 nassarius snails and 10 trochus. Plus my 4 shrimp.

I am guilty of overfeeding a bit. I'm always concerned the shrimp won't get enough food.

Thanks for the tips on the sock. Will definately change to mesh.

I also didn't know dry rock was bad. I thought it was good as you just rinse and put in the tank. If it's leaching nitrates how long can it go on for?

I also have to treat for the @&$$& flatworms. Would using the flatworm exit then doing a 50% (90 gal omg) water change kill two birds with one stone?

 

[TheOtherDB]

Yah, I would say I over feed a bit as well. I tend more toward limited quantity at a greater frequency, but I'm sure I err on the over fed side.

Of all the clean up crew, the urchin has made the most impact. The emerald crab all but eliminated the bubble algae. Both get hand fed nori about once a week or so.

Not sure if you're already using it or not, but while you're out shopping for a mesh sock, try adding a sheet of PolyFilter from Polly Bio-Marine. It's been around since my very earliest days in the hobby and it changes color based on the contaminants/nutrients it removes.

I think I saw mention of GFO somewhere in the thread ... isn't that just for phosphates?

db
~

 

[GoVols]

Been in this hobby over 30 years.
Went bare bottom over 1 and a half years ago and will never go back to a sand bed.
I don't fight nitrate and phos leaching anymore.
I have no more cyano or bad algae issues.
Coralline over grows the bottom with patience.

For now large WC is going to be your best help.

 

[Tanthaitrung]

I know.

That's not the issue. There is a problem with the colors on the card. Habib, the owner of Salifert has acknowledged the issue and thinks that it may be an issue with the printing company. Unfortunately, he stopped posting in the various threads about it and also stopped replying to PMs.

Oh, I will buy another NO3 test to see if there is any difference. Thanks for your sharing