I purchased multiple angels over the past 4 months. A flagfin and flame are doing great. I lost two queens a blue face and four passers in that time span. All but the blueface lived less than 12hrs. The bf made it 8 days. I have checked my water and taken it to 2 of my lfs. My amonia, nitrite was zero. My nitrate was 60, which is common for me. My tank is a 220 with a flagfin, golden puffer, powderblue tang, flame angel, picasso trigger and miniatus grouper. All the fish are under 5 inches other than the puffer and powder blue. I run a SRO 3000ss and have about 200lbs of live rock. My other fish are doing great. So far my lfs have no idea and their only advice is to add a uv sterilizer. The tank has some agression new fish are chased some, but there Is no damage on the dead angels. Any help would be appreciated.
can't keep large angels... help
- Thread starter Gotsoup
- Start date
jjk_reef00
New member
IMO and IME you will have much better luck with new fish in general if you quarantine and medicate new fish. All my new fish are in QT for 2-4 months depending on how well the fish does while in my care.
Do you add them directly to the tank or do your qt them prior to being added?
All fish purchased from same store? Who do they buy them from?
I feel that when fish are brought home they need to be in qt until they are eating well and nice and healthy.
M. groupers be extremely aggressive.....
Do you plan on getting a larger tank someday? My queen angel has a Huge attitude, no way I would put one in a 6ft tank..... I wonder often if my 10ft 475g is to small. HUGE attitude! My blueface is very shy and has no attitude but might not be a match for the m... Grouper
Do you ever treat for flukes? Some of these lg angels like to host them
All fish purchased from same store? Who do they buy them from?
I feel that when fish are brought home they need to be in qt until they are eating well and nice and healthy.
M. groupers be extremely aggressive.....
Do you plan on getting a larger tank someday? My queen angel has a Huge attitude, no way I would put one in a 6ft tank..... I wonder often if my 10ft 475g is to small. HUGE attitude! My blueface is very shy and has no attitude but might not be a match for the m... Grouper
Do you ever treat for flukes? Some of these lg angels like to host them
I had two that were quarantined alone in my Lfs for 4 weeks. I have acclimated, floated and tossed in tried a variety of options all ended in death. I only was trying to keep one angel not all of the, obviously. And yes my m. Grouper is the meanest fish in the tank even though he is only 3 inches
Mrscribbled
Team RC
Rule number 1: never trust someone else to quarantine your fish
#2always quarantine, gives fish time to rest, get eating well, prevent disease.
I'd remove the grouper when adding new fish.
#2always quarantine, gives fish time to rest, get eating well, prevent disease.
I'd remove the grouper when adding new fish.
Its not expensive to to set up a QT, probably offset the cost of 1-2 dead angels.
Living less than 12 hours is very strange. If you use some of the water from your main tank into a QT tank and your angels still die within 12 hours then thats a different problem from the angelfish being bullied to the point it starves to death from an angry grouper
Living less than 12 hours is very strange. If you use some of the water from your main tank into a QT tank and your angels still die within 12 hours then thats a different problem from the angelfish being bullied to the point it starves to death from an angry grouper
jjk_reef00
New member
12 hours means the fish likely came in with disease and were probably not acclimated to captivity, assuming you observed the fish and there was no excessive aggression from you existing live stock.
8 days means the fish had decent body mass when it came in and the combination of disease and/or aggressive tank mates did him in. You really need to QT your fish for 4+ weeks and make sure they are aggressively eating and disease free before introducing them into a tank with established aggressive fish. If you follow proper QT protocol it would be very easy to identify the cause of death as stress from the aggressive tank mates. Without QT there are too many variables to blame it on one thing. Likely combination of aggressive tank mates, disease and/or simply not adapting to captivity (typically refusing to eat).
8 days means the fish had decent body mass when it came in and the combination of disease and/or aggressive tank mates did him in. You really need to QT your fish for 4+ weeks and make sure they are aggressively eating and disease free before introducing them into a tank with established aggressive fish. If you follow proper QT protocol it would be very easy to identify the cause of death as stress from the aggressive tank mates. Without QT there are too many variables to blame it on one thing. Likely combination of aggressive tank mates, disease and/or simply not adapting to captivity (typically refusing to eat).
Like stated qt at home before adding to your tank, its even more critical when there are aggressive fish in the tank and that grouper can be extremely mean. I would also worry when he gets huge.... That he might eat some of the smaller tank mates 
Qt is the best way to minimize the stress the fish deal with. I went the cheap route with my qt setup. Purchased two Rubbermaid 150g tubs and put my fish in there when I purchased new stuff. I have a wet/dry filter I hook up to it and add one of the bacteria culture stuff to cycle it.....
What size were the angels you purchased?
Qt is the best way to minimize the stress the fish deal with. I went the cheap route with my qt setup. Purchased two Rubbermaid 150g tubs and put my fish in there when I purchased new stuff. I have a wet/dry filter I hook up to it and add one of the bacteria culture stuff to cycle it.....
What size were the angels you purchased?
I tried a variety of sizes from 4inches all the way up to 10 inches. And some of the angels were dead in 4hrs. Yes I realize a qt is My best shot, it is set up now. I just did not see enough bullying to warrant death. In fact the biggest angel was over 10 inches and the store had him for 5weeks nothing attacked it at all. All angles were active, eating and actually aggressive at the Lfs. In my tank they shame around, laid down and continued the process until death. Literally, 4hours for the last 2 deaths. I know that a qt will help. My question is there something wrong with my water if all the tests are showing it is fine?
MrTuskfish
Team RC
I agree.
I'm not sure how big your new angels are. FWIW: Juvi versions are MUCH easier to acclimate than larger versions. Also, a QT is always vital; with angels, I consider a QT vital X 100.
Mrscribbled
Team RC
If your loosing a 10 inch angle after 4 hours, something duribg transport or acclimation is going terribly wrong.
I usually drip climate over about an hour. I have also simply floated and dropped after half an hour based on a long car ride and lfs advice. I have tried every acclimation process I could think of and decided for some reason I can't keep Queens, Passers or BF angels. I think it might be all the yellow in their tails that maybe causes more aggression I do not see. I don't know. I purchased a juvi Emp. who did great no problem, eating and everything. So my baby emp, flame and flagfin are fantastic. I bought multiple angels under 4 inches I have bought 5-6 inch and one 10inch. The 10 inch was at the store for 5 weeks. My salinity as 1.022, I never thought to check the stores salinity.... maybe that was a factor. I have been in the hobby for 7 years and understand that there are unforeseen issues. I have also checked on the obvious other than QT issues, which I am setting up. Only other thing I can think of is most the fish were in the bag for 1-1.5 hours due to travel, but I told the store and they used bigger bags and extra air. I know its simple but I think the yellow and body types may be the issue? Maybe there is more aggression that stresses them out than I am seeing and although there is not physical damage on the fish, being chased out of caves and not resting may cause it when the lights go out. I know the Emp. Juvi I just purchased is doing great, go figure.
1-1.5 hr ride shouldn't be a problem due to the fish often times spending 10-24 hours in a bag when shipped from wholesaler or collector to lfs
My bet is aggression......... Be it from multiple fish or one or two
To keep aggression low on my tank I added 3 angels and a handful of tangs all at the same time. Even though my Sohal has a attitude..... My yellow eye kole tang was ****ed off the longest.
Possibly between your grouper and pbt and possibly others just to much attitude for new tank mates?
My bet is aggression......... Be it from multiple fish or one or two
To keep aggression low on my tank I added 3 angels and a handful of tangs all at the same time. Even though my Sohal has a attitude..... My yellow eye kole tang was ****ed off the longest.
Possibly between your grouper and pbt and possibly others just to much attitude for new tank mates?
sandwi54
New member
If multiple fish die within a timeframe of hours, I doubt if this is parasites (unless it's marine velvet) or QT issues (but the OP should still quarantine nonetheless). Something systemic is drastically wrong, e.g., large salinity difference between LFS water and DT water.
1-1.5 hours of travel has nothing to hurt fish. They often spend 24 hours or more in bags when shipped from wholesalers to dealers.
1-1.5 hours of travel has nothing to hurt fish. They often spend 24 hours or more in bags when shipped from wholesalers to dealers.
