Can't keep new fish alive - What am I doing wrong???

[jmadden93]

Hi All,

I'm trying to figure out why I have such poor success keeping new fish alive. My knowledge level is decent, but there's plenty I don't know and I'm always trying to learn more. Please tell me what I'm doing wrong!


I have a 125gal FOWLR tank that's been running for about 5 years (only 4 med/small fish the last 2 years so not much bio load). For water changes I use water from my 5 stage RO/DI filter and mix with Instant ocean salt for about a day before using. The LFS says my water is good, and I follow slow acclimation process of replacing a small amount of LFS bag water with water from my tank over the course of 1-1.5hrs.


This last time around I used an 20gal isolation tank (with a big skimmer, live rock, & 50% from my established tank) and still couldn't keep a few fish alive. I had two butterflys (Auriga & Copperband) and two dwarf angels (pygmy & Tibicen). Only the pygmy is still alive. They all ate well except the copperband. The copperband got some disease where he had cotton like growths on him, and the Auriga got open wounds on his body a week later (pics below). I treated the 20gal tank with API Furan-2 with no luck (fish died before full treatment could be applied). The pygmy is alive and well. I have a wide variety of food that i try to coat with Seachem Garlic Guard to get the fish to eat. I usually give them a mix of plankton, bloodworms, mysis, krill, brine, fish eggs then the usual flakes and pellet.

Should I just always use copper in my isolation tank just to kill off any diseases with new fish? My LFS said if I really wanted to I could put copper in my 125g tank but that everything but the fish would die. I'm not sure I want that route just yet (seems like a last resort).

My equipment:
Tons of live rock & crushed coral
Big Sump with bioballs & more live rock in sump
Big Protein Skimmer
UV Sterilizer
3 Hydor Koralia 1 Powerheads
72" Coralive CF Lighting with 12k bulbs
RedSea Merlin 120 Fluidized bio chem filter (got this from a friend recently and haven't used it yet. Not exactly sure what it does)

 

[Grouperhead]

Sorry to not be of much help but I'd ask a mod to move this to the disease and treatment forum as you will probably get better answers there.

Best of luck.

 

[Mental1]

I would not have liverock in the QT. Mine only has fake decorations for the fish to hide in. Also, many medications require you to turn the skimmer off during treatment. On mine I have a big eheim canister filter as that can keep running as well as an HOB aquaclear filter. Did you do copper tests during treatment? You do have to careful and keep at the right level. I hope this helps ...

 

[markalot]

I'm still very new with saltwater but I'll answer this as if it was a freshwater question...

The LFS says my water is good, and I follow slow acclimation process of replacing a small amount of LFS bag water with water from my tank over the course of 1-1.5hrs.

What are your readings for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate.
Add to that all the relevant SW readings.

What is your SG reading compared to the LFS?

How often do you change your water?

Providing this info will help those who can provide a better answer than I can.

 

[helicoprion]

I'm seeing a lot of what looks like red slime algae in your tank, which would indicate dirty water to me. Are you using tap water or RO/DI? How often are you doing changes?

 

[jmadden93]

Hi All,

So I tested my water (water changes are done with my RO/DI filter) today and Amonia & Nitrite are 0 ppm. Nitrate is about 15ppm. SG is 1.016 (I hear a lower SG helps keep sickness away). What affect does a low SG have on fish long term? Don't have a pH kit but I've heard with that much crushed coral and water changes you should be okay (I'll get a pH kit now). I've never used copper in my QT or DT yet. Should I just copper my QT anytime i get new fish??

The general consensus is I have too much algae, and i need to check my water quality more. I have a few ideas I wanted to share.

1) Would something like a "2 little fishes phosban phosphate reactor" do any good for me? I can get one for about $35.

2) The way I have my rock set up is that I put the nicer more decorative/fragile pieces on top of the stronger more solid rock. This means I never really get my siphon hose under that rock when doing water changes. I'm only vacuuming the front half of the tank. Maybe another arrangement that lets me vacuum more floor space is better and worth trying? Is that significant?

Thanks for all your help!

 

[randomfishguy85]

since your sg is only 1.016, how do you acclimate new fish to that sg? do you drip, if so for how long? do you just temp acclimate and then dump them in? do you treat copper with the sg that low?

 

[pscott99]

Are you buying from different LFS to rule out the source ?
Are you identifying any disease when they die ?
A tank as well established as yours should not be losing anything at an usual rate. Do you clean the bio balls ?
Diseases can stay in a tank for months.
Are you buying compatable fish mates. ?

 

[Wrench]

I had the same exact problem earlier this year. My problem ended up being salinity. My refractometer had drifted out of calibration over time and the salinity had crept up to 1.038. The fish that were in he system had acclimated to the high salinity. All new additions would die in a week. I got everythin back in line and the problem has gone away.

 

[JSeymour]

So a few things come to mind while I read this thread. The first thing to come to mind is a proper quarantine method. At this point, you likely have something in the system. You have two options, leave things be and hope the fish you have in there develope an immunity(they may have already) and wait for the disease/pathogen to die off. This would take 9 months and you could not add any fish during this time. Your other option is to remove the fish from the display and place them all in quarantine to be prophylactically treated and allow the tank to be fishless(fallow) for two months. Don't treat in the display, it's a waste and you could end up developing resistant strains of pathogens due to improper medication levels(copper specifically).

Secondly, no live rock or sand in quarantine. Copper is very reactive with calcium and will bind to live rock and sand,, not allowing you to keep copper at the proper levels for treatment. PVC and plastic aquarium decor are great for quarantine tanks. Read the sticky on quarantine in the disease forum. Advanced Aquarist also just put out a new article on quarantining. Both would be a good read.

Thirdly, someone must be attacking your fish(a crab maybe). I'm just assuming, but I'm guessing you didn't buy those butterflies with open wounds on them, so someone in your tank is injuring them. Try to figure that out.

Keeping your specific gravity so low could also be a problem. Acclimation will always be more difficult with keeping it so low. Luckily for the fish, it's easier to acclimate to lower salinity than higher. Stress is stress though. Keeping your pH and alkalinity stable is also much harder to do at a lower salinity. Of all parameters, these are the two that need to be the most stable. The lowered specific gravity may help with disease, but only if you go really low, 1.009. It would be better to keep salinity at NSW for ease unless you are going to do a real hyposalinity treatment.

I don't think nutrients are your problem, but a phosban reactor will help lower your phosphates.

 

[Triton_Z]

I agree you will likely get faster results over in the Fish Disease and Treatment forum, but many of the same people visit this forum, so it's likely not a big deal.

I would suspect you have some water quality problems or acclimation issues given your troubles, but you listed parameters don't show anything out of line except the salinity. The consensus appears for the health of the fish you should keep your salinity around 1.025 (35ppt) and stable. However, I do not suspect SG is responsibility for your current problems. I would recommend you gradually increase over a period of time.

Do you have any current pH readings or Alkalinity readings? These are important as well to give a good measure of water quality.

The picture of the butterfly shows open wounds again as others have suggested consistent with actual physical damage from something or some other animal. Are there any other aggressive fish or animals capable of these injuries? Maybe running against rocks? I hesitate from suggesting something bacterial/viral, but maybe some of the more knowledgeable members, can discuss. The cotton growths and open wounds you describe make me think this is possible.

Do all the fish have these open wounds before they die?

I would recommend against the use of copper on any fish in the QT or DT until you have a better handle on what you are treating.

Your DOC, nitrates, phosphate levels are probably high enough causing the red cyano. Use some chemical filtration like GFO, Activated Carbon, Purigen, or Chemipure to make some immediate improvements in those levels. A large water change would be advised as well if possible.

Lights out for 3-5 days will also help knock the cyano back down. Vacuum as much out as possible before hand, if possible.

I believe making the rockwork more accessible for cleaning and/or getting more flow into the tank would help move some of the detritus into the water column and hopeful out of the tank through mechanical filtration(e.g. filter socks, protein skimmer).

I would hold off of any fish purchases.

 

[LisaD]

The butterfly looks like it may have a bacterial infection to me. If it's Vibrio, or some similar infection, it can be difficult to treat. I'm not sure those are mechanical wounds.