Captive Bred Yellow Tangs
- Thread starter jaa1456
- Start date
jmaneyapanda
Commencing hatred
I agree, it is likely a grammatical error, but the way it is expressed in the OP post:
He makes it pretty clear the proprietor is trying to sell fish as born and raised in captivity (ain as much as the comments from the OP). To that, I object. That is fraudulently selling. Its like selling used car as new, because it only has "a couple thousand miles on it". Semantics? yes. But, also unfairly fraudulent? Yes. I would speculate that these "captive bred" fish go for more than wild ones, or captive reared ones too. That is just a guess of mine, though.
As for the information and techniques being available, RC is the largest reefing forum in the world, likely. Are you suggesting that this technology was developed, mastered, and made it to market in NJ before ANYONE has heard of it? Anywhere? That seems quite ludicrous.
Again, if this technology is out there, where tangs are now being captive bred for retail, please point me in the direction of where I can find information on it. A source, a company name, anything. Until then, shenanigans it is.
velvetelvis
Active member
I think part of the problem (although not necessarily in this case) is that a lot of LFS staff aren't familiar with the difference between "captive-bred" and "tank-raised"
melanotaenia
New member
I am not saying that people are voraciously breeding yellow tangs, but I do know that it is possible for things to go on in the hobby that may not make it here to Reef Central immediately.
I try to keep an open mind about these topics because there are some crazy things going on in the marine hobby right now. Captive reared fish, breeding of Mandarins, catching new species of fish on re-breathers, etc. etc. With all the new advancements that have taken place, I try to be optimistic of moving forward in the hobby instead of lambasting a forum post or store based on something like an error in speak.
And I am know the owner of said store and have spoken to him many times; I would put money down right now that it was simply a misunderstanding in labeling by the wholesaler or the invoice, and not an underhanded attempt to sell a fish for more based on a captive bred vs. captive raised scenario.
How much were these tangs going for BTW? If I remember correctly, the captive raised hippos were selling for about 89.99 on Divers Den, so if these Yellow Tangs are selling in a similar price point or less, then they are most likely captive raised. Which I still think is pretty cool.
I try to keep an open mind about these topics because there are some crazy things going on in the marine hobby right now. Captive reared fish, breeding of Mandarins, catching new species of fish on re-breathers, etc. etc. With all the new advancements that have taken place, I try to be optimistic of moving forward in the hobby instead of lambasting a forum post or store based on something like an error in speak.
And I am know the owner of said store and have spoken to him many times; I would put money down right now that it was simply a misunderstanding in labeling by the wholesaler or the invoice, and not an underhanded attempt to sell a fish for more based on a captive bred vs. captive raised scenario.
How much were these tangs going for BTW? If I remember correctly, the captive raised hippos were selling for about 89.99 on Divers Den, so if these Yellow Tangs are selling in a similar price point or less, then they are most likely captive raised. Which I still think is pretty cool.
velvetelvis
Active member
OT, melanotaenia, but you must be a fan of rainbowfish...am I right? I used to have two or three tanks of them myself. 
melanotaenia
New member
OT, melanotaenia, but you must be a fan of rainbowfish...am I right? I used to have two or three tanks of them myself.
Ah yes, my Rainbowfish love began very early, I kept a shoal of them in a huge tank for over 10 years. I was one of the first to get the Melanotaenia praecox rainbows when they were being collected in the wild. They grew huge. I plan on getting into another fairly large rainbow tank in the near future. They are great fish
jmaneyapanda
Commencing hatred
Again, I agree, it was surely a error in terminology. But, as this post was presented, it appears not. When, by direct account, a LFS owner makes that rather direct claim that they are NOT tank reared, but tank raised, you have to think he knows what he was claiming. Is it reason to break out the pitchforks and torches? Of course not. But, it does merit clarification. And not camoflauge, in saying (sic), "Well, theres really no functional difference between captive reared and captive bred". There is a WORLD of difference.
This hobby is indeed advancing. However, too often, it is not "new hat". Using your example, I happen to own a captive bred mandarin, bred my Matt Wittenrich, which I picked up at MACNA 2008 in Atlanta. This technology is known, and out there, and always has been. Rebreather technology has been around for a while. Yes, we are catching enw fish, but it isnt unheard of. However, if the first hint of tang breeding seemingly comes about from a lot of fish for sale at a LFS, I do think that is incorrect. If there is ANY info out there, lets have it. Otherwsie, I think we can all agree this isnt accurate.
Again, I do not doubt the fish store owners credibility, but, undeniably, in this case (according to the OP), he rather definitely and inarguably made the claim to be selling something that is likely impossible. An error? Yes, most likely. However, if he is going to sell them, and make this claim, he should be cautious and clear as to the facts. Otherwise, it does become purposefully mislabelling.
angelsil
New member
Interesting. I used to live around the corner from said LFS. I bought a captive Argi back in the day there under similar circumstances. I had never heard of Argis being captive bred, but the salesperson assured me there was some guy in Jersey in a basement doing it or something. The fish was fine and lived happily in my 29 until I moved.
While I'm willing to believe a basement hobbyist breeding dwarf angels, I can't imagine yellow tangs being raised in commercial quantities (or, really, at all) and nobody knowing about it. I can't see there being a solid business model given the amount of space needed. It just doesn't make any kind of sense. I know the store prides itself on stocking the weird and rare but the science is lacking here, at least as far as I know.
Captive raised tangs are still cool and definitely good for the hobby, but let's make sure we're clearly labeling something as what it is.
While I'm willing to believe a basement hobbyist breeding dwarf angels, I can't imagine yellow tangs being raised in commercial quantities (or, really, at all) and nobody knowing about it. I can't see there being a solid business model given the amount of space needed. It just doesn't make any kind of sense. I know the store prides itself on stocking the weird and rare but the science is lacking here, at least as far as I know.
Captive raised tangs are still cool and definitely good for the hobby, but let's make sure we're clearly labeling something as what it is.
Well I went there today and a manager said they were indeed CAPTIVE RAISED, they changed the listing on the tank and the price went from 30 up to 49 in 2 days, I was saddened to learn they were not captive bred due to the good this would bring the hobby, but I was also ready for those words as well. On another note I remember when I got into this hobby and no fish were captive bred at all and they always said it would be impossible to do so. This was 16 years ago and now you have clowns, dottybacks and mandrins that i know of. i probrably missed something but thats more than they said would ever happen.
Oh and one other thing, The members of this Site or much more civilized than members on other sites. Notably Manhattan Reefs. A member there that says he is amember here has been harrassing me to no end over there. Yet I see he has yet to show himself here. I believe this site is to intelligent for him and the members here have respect and rather jump to conclusions and call you names, you guys wait and see the truth before making judgement. Kudos to you guys.
TampaReefer79
Premium Member
Clowns
Damsels
Dwarf Angels
Mandarins
Dottybacks
Gobies
Blennies
Cardinals
Seahorses
Assessors
Any others that I can't think of?
First off, Mandarins are way easier to raise than tangs... Just because adult wild mandarins don't always accept prepared foods, does not mean the larvae are impossible, obviously... Okay. So I mean I know everyone and there mother wants a mandarin, but I will be really impressed when someone captively breeds and raises a tang. And yes I am saying these tangs you are talking about aren't captive bred.
Got any comfirmation. I highly doubt it. Unless you saw the breeding/raising operation I don't believe it. I think the farthest anyone has gone with that species is 9 days by Martin Moe.
LFS are in it to make money.
I know of a Dwarf Angel that a guy in the UK breeds in his tanks at home. I remember reading a huge article about it. I forget the actual name of the angel, but they were blue and yellow and very hard to come by since the only island they come from will not let them be exported anymore. I think they were priced around 2,000 apiece.
Breeding and raising are totally different. Basically anyone with two dwarfs of the same species, and a twilight period with warmer temps can get their fish to spawn nightly if they feed them enough.
Resplendent Angels is probably what you are talking about. Frank at RCT raised those, and there are still some of his floating around but the fact that someone had them spawning, while it is great really isn't that impressive.
Resplendent Angels is probably what you are talking about. Frank at RCT raised those, and there are still some of his floating around but the fact that someone had them spawning, while it is great really isn't that impressive.
jmaneyapanda
Commencing hatred
Please find and provide the article. Id love to read about it. If there is a basement breeder raising and selling dwarf angels, he's a fool for not going more public.
As Tim (TCM) said, I think you might be thinking of Frank at RCT in Hawaii.
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jmaneyapanda
Commencing hatred
Did he happen to say from where? Im curious. I know Sustainable Aquatics in Tennessee had doen soem hepatus tangs, but didnt know that Zebrasoma sp. were on the pipeline.
They are the Resplendent angels that tcmfish mentioned and in the article the guy had them spawn/breed/ call it what you want but he had is angels breed and raises the fry up to sellable sizes and then sells them. But if I remember correctly there were not a ton of them surviving. I think it was about 5-8 out of every spawn and that was maybe once or twice a year. The article was in a small free magazine I have laying around somewhere here. I need to dig it up.
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