Carbon Dosing and SPS RTN'ing/STN'ing. Is this a legitimate concern?

ChrisKirkland

Reef and Coral Fanatic
I have had some RTN/STN issues. For example I have a Green millie that was doing great as of last night but this afternoon I noticed it had RTN'd in the middle of the colony. I hadn't dosed vodka yet. I see no evidence of pests causing issues. I have several monti's and acros with no issues. I do have some Cyano growth on the sand bed.

I have read many posts about Carbon Dosing (be it pellet, Vodka, Sugar, or Vinegar) saying it can cause cyano blooms. I have read a few posts talking about RTN/STN issues with carbon dosing, is this a legitimate concern?

Parameters:

Nitrate: 4PPM (Very happy where this is right now, some dont like it that high but everything seems happy and algae growth is minimal)

Phosphate: .02PPM Hanna
Temp: 78.6 Apex
Calcium: 460PPM
Alk: 8.4 dKH
Salinity: 35PPT

Ideas? Thoughts?
 
Do you mean by not dosing the vodka your getting tissue loss? Or your getting the tissue loss because of the carbon source?

I'm guessing it's the latter and I think most of the theories and possibly what you have read are based on running alk higher than 8 dkh and carbon dosing leading to rtn/stn.
 
I have been dosing for the past 6 months. Now that the nitrate is down below 40PPM I have started to have this issue. I am wondering if it is related to Vodka dosing or something else.
 
I would say no.

What might and can happen is that carbon dosing change nutrient levels very quickly and all quick changes to water chemistry might trigger STN in sensitive corals. 6 months is not very quick tho.

RTN in the middle of the colony i would consider flow related as a first guess.
 
I would say no.

What might and can happen is that carbon dosing change nutrient levels very quickly and all quick changes to water chemistry might trigger STN in sensitive corals. 6 months is not very quick tho.

RTN in the middle of the colony i would consider flow related as a first guess.

Interesting... Is it concidered too low flow or too much flow? There is lots of flow in that area.
 
Since it is in the middle of the coral lack of flow would be my guess but tbh i find guessing STN/RTN reasons to be a shot in the dark. Only if followed after an Alk swing is it easy.
 
How is the polyp extension on your other SPS? I notice a similar problem with my green Mille colony, then it started happening to other large established colonies. My answer was to feed more. I am now up to 6 feedings in a 24hr cycle. 3 for the fish during the day, and 3 at night for the corals. I now have great polyp extension and color.
 
How is the polyp extension on your other SPS? I notice a similar problem with my green Mille colony, then it started happening to other large established colonies. My answer was to feed more. I am now up to 6 feedings in a 24hr cycle. 3 for the fish during the day, and 3 at night for the corals. I now have great polyp extension and color.

Most have crazy polyp extension. The acros had great extension also. What are your NO3 and PO4 running at?
 
Plenty of people carbon dose with fantastic results for years. Initially I had great growth and color as a result of biopellets but as time went, bold turned to pastel turned to bleached, turns to STN, turned to losing 90% of my acros before I finally snapped out of it and removed biopellets, gfo, and carbon. Eveththing is growing back now. Some things I was literally only able to save a single polyp from. Unfortunately two of those would be my Oregon tort and my Hawkins echinata. Two beautiful but painfully slow growing acros. I'll be quite a success story if I can create colonies of those from a single polyp. Oregon tort is up to 5 polyps now in the last 3 months
 
In my own experience, I believe people are indeed relaying the information incorrectly.

I've used zeovit, other biopellets, nitrate sponges, phosphate sponges, and finally I'm to ecobak plus(multiple carbon sourced pellet; think vsv) and biodigest. I saw the original validity with carbon dosing but ignored the morons on the internet who say it's counter productive.

All I can say is ecobak plus and biodigest together makes me want to open a freakin frag store. lol It's become stupid easy to keep a reef tank, and I mean keep it clean and acceptable for most anything.

The trick?

Well, for one, it is entirely possible to strip the water column with ANY form of carbon dosing. Too much of a change in too short of time = tissue necrosis.
One day I cleaned out a whole crap ton of stuff/medias, cleaned out the entirely biopellet reactor, put in new Poly-Filter, and added 1ml of biodigest.

Know what happened? In 27 hours, the phosphates went from .22 to .05.
Most other corals were not affected, but one had a small bit of necrosis the size of the end of a pencil eraser.

Now of course before I would have probably left things alone, let the phosphate level fall more because we "all need zero phosphates because they're the devil!"

Whatever. Never listening to that hogwash again.

I proceeded to ignore the phosphate level, and feed everyday, multiple times a day, with nutricell. (planktonic food)

I saw the phosphates bounce between .05 to .15. Completely too high right?
Well the necrosis healed itself in 6 days.

I've tried many combo's between carbon dosing and gfo, other medias etc. Now I only use poly-filter and gac. Most of the time I just rinse off the gac and put it back in. The poly I actually change out since it absorbs metals etc. The biopellet reactor is recirculating, again filled with Ecobak Plus. Usually if I want to reseed the reactor I use the biodigest, otherwise I can go 1-2 months without needing it.

Also, one big thing imo, I have the bp reactor output to skimmer input, and bp reactor input from skimmer output. So essentially it's a recirc reactor, recirculating via the skimmer, and THEN it gets to the tank. This was an original thought I had to liimit the amount of bacteria that escapes/grows in the tank and it's worked perfectly.

Anyways, back to the people relaying info correctly. I have found that feeding coral food is necessary. People say they never feed their corals, in the case of softies sure, but LPS and SPS I've found under the circumstances of carbon dosing, pretty much require it or they'll fade/stn.

Also, the zero phosphate thing, I think that's crap. When I actually had zero phosphates, again, nothing was happy, nothing grew, and a few stn'd. I was unbelievably ticked.
Now that I've not even worried about it, let it stay between .05 and .15-.2 I have zero issues. Including zero algae, the algae on the back glass is whitening some too. The only thing I can figure is inorganic phosphates are near zero and the .05-.22 readings are actually bacteria that die and come apart in the test vial.(organic phosphates)

Anyways, more and more as time goes by I think the whole 'all your corals need are light' and 'you don't have to broadcast feed the corals or spot feed' and 'you need zero phosphates and nitrates' is the biggest bits of misinformation in the hobby.

I think people are reading this info from everywhere because it's been fairly mainstream at a couple forums, and then they turn around and wonder why their corals are having necrosis events.

Also the don't add what you can test. That's bull. You can't test for a lot, but that doesn't mean a few drops will hurt, as long as you keep up with water changes. Been using the red sea coral color program with reef energy. Been doing so for a few weeks now, and in addition to the constant everyday feedings, the corals have never looked this amazing.

Took me a few years to compile this info, but I can't believe I bought into it and chased numbers while things were having necrosis issues. All because I thought it was the best information from some smart people. Nope, just the folks concerned about popularity contests. It's why I appreciate the euro forums, no American ego's. :D
 
So I have switched up my carbon dosing regimen. After reading 29 Pages from a forum post here on Carbon dosing, I will be dosing both vodka and Vinegar. More than likey 50/50. I have read many posts where this has helped slow or stop the cyano as cyano may be casuing my RTN/STN issues along with flow. I have also added A Koralia Magnum 8 (3250GPH) total flow in my reef is 11500GPH which is 38x tank volume. Which should be enough for my SPS. Now just getting the flow directions right is next. I think this combo will take care of the RTN/STN issues and cyano. When I took a closer look, practically took a dive in the tank I found that several acros and montis were in dead zones, its like the flow just stopped at a brick wall.
 
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