Caulerpa as a filter system.

[elegance coral]

I have been on another site talking about this, and they seem to be very against the idea. Stating that caulerpa is constantly "leaking" phosphates, nitrates, and toxins into the water. Because of this "leaking" caulerpa is a very inefficient means of removing nutrients from the water. It was also said that the reason coulerpa goes sexual is because it grows and runs out of room causing it to poison itself with its own toxins. I just wanted to see what the opinions are here. What do you believe causes caulerpa to go sexual? Is it a good means of nutrient removal, or a death sentence for a reef tank? Are the toxins problematic before the algae goes sexual?

 

[killagoby]

I've used it in 3 of the last refugiums on two of my tanks.

I had a CPR HOB fuge on my old 29 gallon. Yes, I never pruned it. It "choked" itself, went sexual and turned all white.

I then took off that fuge and added CPR's AquaFuge MP to that same tank. I started to prune the Caulerpa so this would not happen again. Plus, that removed the waste the Caulerpa absorbed. Also, I ran the lights 24/7. I've heard this will prevent it from going sexual. That helped the tank.

On my 70 gallon I have ADHI's Model 30 fuge. I'm doing the same things I've learned in the past. Run the lights 24/7 so it does not go sexual, and this will also keep the PH stable. Prune it so it can grow and continue to absorb "toxins" in the tank.

I believe it is a good type of nutrient export. If you take care of it.

Happy fuge-ing!

 

[timrandlerv10]

mine has been great--i'm glad it grows quickly, because i prune it by putting it in my DT and feeding my foxface, who loves it.

about 1/3 goes to him, 2/3 gets chucked.

 

[FunkieReefJunkie]

Here is the downside of caulerpa minus the discussions of it releasing toxins and going sexual. It will find it's way into your main tank - it's a murphy's law kind of thing. And once it does you will spend the rest of your tanks existence pruning it back. Chaeto is a much better alternative. Have you ever read a thread on RC stating "Help! Chaeto is taking over my tank?" There is good reason caulerpa is considered an invasive species and banned in many states.

 

[killagoby]

I've ran caulerpa in my fuges for 3 years. It's even gone sexual. I've never had it find it's way into the main tank. I'm more concerned with other nusiance algaes growing in the main tank than the Caulerpa finding its way there.

On the other hand, I have had Chaeto make its way in to my main tank. Go figure!

 

[FunkieReefJunkie]

Mine eventually made it into the display. Though had it not took hold in there while I was sick and unable to maintain the tank for these many months who knows what my water quality would have been. There's pros and cons to most everything I suppose. What's been amazing though after removing the majority of the caulerpa I have some new and interesting algaes popping up which apparently couldn't compete against the prolific weed.

 

[Ralph ATL]

Caulerpa raceimosa & Caulerpa taxifolia are easy to remove from the display if they do get in.

 

[hahnmeister]

caulerpa has the highest nutrient rate uptake for algae, and growth rate. the downside is that it releases a toxin which inhibits calcium formation in stony corals. So for a softy tank, go for it (then again, whats the point since many softy corals are excellent nitrate/phosphate absorbers as well?), but for SPS and LPS, its best to pick something else. I have been very happy with some other lesser known macro species, like a fast growing grassilaria type algae known as 'tang heaven'. No toxins.

http://aquacon.com/vip.html

 

[FunkieReefJunkie]

Mysterybox it's the racemosa which stubbornly resumes it's 9 lives within my display. I have removed rocks and tediously picked it off with tweezers and burned it with pure kalk paste... hours I could have spent doing something more productive. I can be without the stuff for months and then ta da it's back. An it always pops up in the place which will cause me the most angst, requiring rearranging and removal of rock and coral out of the tank. If I can persuade one newcomer to spare themselves from a life long duty of trimming an algae that grows indiscriminately I will feel satisified. California spent millions of dollars trying to rid themselves of caulerpa. It's good qualities are the very one's that make it bad and there are so many better options out there. I declare it Satan's little helper! 'Tis evil I tell ya.

 

[hybridgenius]

Yep... toxins and going sexual = no good

 

[killagoby]

My "controlled" enviorment

 

[coralnut99]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11154541#post11154541 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by killagoby
I've ran caulerpa in my fuges for 3 years. It's even gone sexual. I've never had it find it's way into the main tank. I'm more concerned with other nusiance algaes growing in the main tank than the Caulerpa finding its way there.

On the other hand, I have had Chaeto make its way in to my main tank. Go figure!

My experience is about identical to Killagoby's. Except I haven't seen a caulerpa crash in the last 5 years or so. And even the last one I can remember was actually caused by a top-off water disaster.

I can't even say I prune mine regularly, but I do when I can't see through the fuges anymore. 24/7 lighting is really key.

 

[RichSea7]

It was my understanding that many ( if not most ) Macro Algae can be used for nutrient export in a refugium. Some may be better than others, and some, such as halimeda may use calcium or other "wanted " nutrients..... So that may be a consideration.

I've heard of some folks using Xenia for nutrient export as well....

 

[Adamc1303]

Don't use Caluperia! Use Chaeto.

http://www.fishchannel.com/fish-news/2007-october/071026-caulerpa.aspx


http://www.ridnis.ucdavis.edu/Caulerpataxifolia.html

http://www-csgc.ucsd.edu/STORIES/Caulerpa2.html

 

[coralnut99]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11186589#post11186589 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Adamc1303
Don't use Caluperia! Use Chaeto.

http://www.fishchannel.com/fish-news/2007-october/071026-caulerpa.aspx


http://www.ridnis.ucdavis.edu/Caulerpataxifolia.html

http://www-csgc.ucsd.edu/STORIES/Caulerpa2.html

All good points, but there isn't much in any of those articles that can actually pinpoint the source. Also, certain Chaeto strains are just as prolific as Caulerpa. If hobbyists were to blame for the problems with invasive Caulerpa, they will most likely be blamed when Chaeto is seen rolling across the ocean floor in huge tumbleweed balls.

 

[greenbean36191]

Any macroalgae leaks nutrients back into the water, but the net effect is that they permanently take up more than they leak (otherwise they wouldn't grow). Caulerpa is toxic, but the degree varies significantly from species to species and even strain to strain. Also, the toxins aren't just being exuded all the time. They're released when the algae is damaged. If you remove whole strands at once or transfer it to another tank while you prune it, the toxins shouldn't be an issue. Carbon is also a simple way to take care of any that may be released. Going sexual has nothing to do with toxins or poisoning itself. It's just a survival mechanism for when resources don't support fast growth anymore. Keep it pruned regularly and it shouldn't be an issue.

Personally, I prefer Chaetomorpha because it doesn't go sexual and it doesn't anchor to the rocks, but that doesn't mean it's easy to remove either. It breaks into small pieces that float around the tank and clog pumps and start new clumps intertwined in the rocks.

All good points, but there isn't much in any of those articles that can actually pinpoint the source.

Several genetic tests of the aquarium strain that is causing problems have shown that it is a mutant that isn't found in nature. It has been genetically traced back to the Stuttgart Aquarium, which passed some on to the Monaco Aquarium which sits directly over the site where the first Mediterranean invasion occurred. It's known that the aquarium released material into the sea there, so there is almost no doubt that aquariums were the original source.

What that has to do with the choice to use Caulerpa in a fuge or not I'm not sure. Unless you live in California, where it's illegal I don't see any relevance as long as you aren't releasing it into the wild, which you shouldn't be doing with anything from your aquarium anyway.

 

[killagoby]

Yep, I'm in New Jersey. It'll never remove the toxins from our water...

 

[tmz]

I vote for chaetomorpha. I've used both and both at once but ultimately took out all of the caulerpa. It really cleaned the water and I never had an ivasion problem but I doe keep tangs and a Foxface. It is single celled and when it sporulates it dumps everything it has absorbed back into the tank at one time leaving a milky mess. I never tried 24/7 lighting which may help. I did prune often though. Chaeto in my opinion is less attractive but more suited to it's purpose in a refugium.

 

[coralnut99]

Re: Caulerpa as a filter system.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11152182#post11152182 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elegance coral
I have been on another site talking about this, and they seem to be very against the idea. Stating that caulerpa is constantly "leaking" phosphates, nitrates, and toxins into the water. Because of this "leaking" caulerpa is a very inefficient means of removing nutrients from the water. It was also said that the reason coulerpa goes sexual is because it grows and runs out of room causing it to poison itself with its own toxins. I just wanted to see what the opinions are here. What do you believe causes caulerpa to go sexual? Is it a good means of nutrient removal, or a death sentence for a reef tank? Are the toxins problematic before the algae goes sexual?

Since this was starting to turn into another caulerpa vs. chaeto thread, I thought I would go back and re-read the original question posed. And that leads me to ask a question: Did the person/s who claimed that caulerpa "leaks" nutrients and toxins offer anything in the way of how this conclusion was reached?

I can rationalize that it will leak toxins if damaged, but I have a hard time seeing how it will return nutrients it has already absorbed. Of course if it's crashed that would do it, but if still green and growing, how would releasing nutrients occur?

On a somewhat related issue, I've read posts that claim caulerpa to be toxic to tangs. Presumably because of the caulerpins contained therein. I have a 125 that I had aquascaped to be a a seagrass bed off to one side and I used caulerpa prolifera as it makes a very uniform height grass bed. I added a purple tang, and after he realized it was food (it's not native to the Pacific), he mowed it right down to the sand bed within a week. I'm talking about a square foot and half of the stuff. I don't think he even got a stomach ache as almost 2 years later, he's as healthy as horse. That would seem to disprove that theory.

 

[elegance coral]

Re: Re: Caulerpa as a filter system.

Re: Re: Caulerpa as a filter system.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11189814#post11189814 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by coralnut99
Since this was starting to turn into another caulerpa vs. chaeto thread, I thought I would go back and re-read the original question posed. And that leads me to ask a question: Did the person/s who claimed that caulerpa "leaks" nutrients and toxins offer anything in the way of how this conclusion was reached?
He simply quoted what someone he looked up to said.

I can rationalize that it will leak toxins if damaged, but I have a hard time seeing how it will return nutrients it has already absorbed. Of course if it's crashed that would do it, but if still green and growing, how would releasing nutrients occur?
This is what I want to know. I was under the assumption that the purpose of the toxins were to keep the algae from being eaten. If so, leaking these toxins would be counterproductive, correct?

On a somewhat related issue, I've read posts that claim caulerpa to be toxic to tangs. Presumably because of the caulerpins contained therein. I have a 125 that I had aquascaped to be a a seagrass bed off to one side and I used caulerpa prolifera as it makes a very uniform height grass bed. I added a purple tang, and after he realized it was food (it's not native to the Pacific), he mowed it right down to the sand bed within a week. I'm talking about a square foot and half of the stuff. I don't think he even got a stomach ache as almost 2 years later, he's as healthy as horse. That would seem to disprove that theory.