Causes of Cyano Algae ?

[Opiy]

I was just curious what is the cause of cyano algae? I recently started to get it pretty bad I was thinking of was maybe the flow is to low. I mentioned it to my local fish store and they thought maybe a mini cycle was happening but its now I think 1.5 weeks with no improvements

I done a 15g water change on the tank 1 week ago and a 10g change yesterday. I have been doing 10g every week since I had the tank. I only have roughly 20 lbs LR (I know I need more) in a 58g tank. Maybe a total of 65g system. The skimmer I have is a nautilus se which I really don't like. I also can't think of anything that has died unless maybe 1 snail but I don't think 1 snail would cause this kinda outbreak for over 2 weeks??

Only have 1 fish, 1 brittle star, 6 snails and 5 are nassarius. 6 Hermits. 1 hermit is a bigger one and 5 are the small blue legs. Thats pretty much it on livestok.

I thought maybe I was overfeeding but I pretty much just feed the 1 fish little bit of flake food and leave nori on a clip for him to munch on.

I will run a filter bag only after I do water change to help grab the stuff that gets stired up. I leave it in the tank for maybe 4 hours then take it back out.

I am running carbon

Lighting is 4 VHOs and I was told when I got them the bulbs were new as of January.

Flow is a mag7 for return and 2 max jet 600 PHs

I was going to get the water checked but I figured the reading wouldn't be very accurate with this much algea growing.



Any ideas what could be the problem ????

 

[dne63]

I,m pretty new to the hobby my tank has only been up and running for about 2yrs now and I,ve been through most all of the stages of algea one can go throughand am now dealing with this one. From what I,ve been told most everyone does at sometime have to deal with this I have been told to try to increase water flow over the area where it is is the best way to take care of it but if you HAVE to you can use chem clean but as always if you can let it work its self out that is always better . Dont if any of this is of any help as I said its just what I,ve been told.Dave E

 

[Amphiprion]

The immediate cause is a source of phosphate. However, the presence of nitrate will speed growth.

 

[jdieck]

The main reason for Cyano is high nutrients (Nitrate, Phosphate and Organics), contributing factors to it's spread are poor skimming low or shifted spectrum lighting, slow flow, over feeding and poor nutrient export and poor general husbandry.

General actions include:
a) Vacuum out as much of it as possible
b) increased water changes using RO/DI for your salt mix
c) Increased skimming (larger skimmer, second skimmer and / or wetter foam)
d) Increased flow circulation
e) reduced feeding
f) Use Organics adsorbing media (Like Purigen)
g) Blow off detritus from rock pores while running the bag or a mechanical filter
h) use of a refugium with macroalgae to increase export
i) Improved pod and sand shifting critters to improve upon a functioning deep sand bed.

Once you have worked out the improvement in the conditions basically to prevent its recurrence, if it does not go away you may need to treat chemically.

The products I have tried are Chemi-Clean and Red slime remover.
They work differently.
Chemi-Clean acts by oxidizing detritus which is a source of nutrients for the algae so it acts upon it by reducing it's source of food. Some times Chemi - clean is not effective because it mostly Oxidizes Organics but if your problem is more a Nitrogenous or Phosphate feed it might do little.
Try Chemi Clean first (Remember after you have tried permanent fixes above) for a couple of times and see how it goes, remember to vacuum out as much algae as possible before the application so the massive die off does not release the nutrients that may feed a second wave.
If after the chemi-clean the cyano is still around then you may need to use The Red Slime remover which directly attacks and kill the algae and might be a bit more aggressive. Follow the dosage and applications instructions strictly specially with the Slime remover as it may kill some of the beneficial bacteria also and you need to give it time to recover. The good news is that you have a relatively low bio-load.
By the way get some good test kits for Nitrate, Calcium and Alkalinity as you will need to track them often specially if you use red slime which may drop the alkalinity a little bit.

 

[Opiy]

I know I have a crappy skimmer. It does pull skimmate but nothing compared to a higher end model.

Unfortunately I don't have the room for a refugium, wish I did though.

When I do my water changes I blow off the rock with a power head, scoop the sand bed up with my hand to get all the crud moving around , and then scrape the sides of the tank. Then I will start to siphone as much stuff as I can. After I siphone out my 10g worth I turn the return pump back on then have the filter sock on to help catch the debris plus I have the power heads blowing water towards the overflow to help the small pieces flow into the overflow.

I am using RO/DI water and I put salt in a bucket with a powerhead 24 hrs before I put in the tank after water changes.

I have been thinking of getting a max jet 1200 PH to help more with flow. Wonder if it would help much.

 

[jdieck]

I would try a better skimmer if possible.

 

[dnjan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7103880#post7103880 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jdieck
The main reason for Cyano is high nutrients (Nitrate, Phosphate and Organics), contributing factors to it's spread are poor skimming low or shifted spectrum lighting, slow flow, over feeding and poor nutrient export and poor general husbandry.

Could you explain the mechanism for shifted spectrum lighting contributing to cyano growth? Since the cause of a bulb to shift apparent spectrum is a decrease in intensity at one or more wavelengths (no increases in intensity), I don't understand how decreasing intensities can contribute to cyano growth.

 

[jdieck]

Shifts in spectrum not only ocurr by the reduction of one type of lenght wave by lower intensity but also the degradation and chemical changes of the gas mix and vapors inside the bulb.
Red, yellows and greens promote algae growth

 

[dnjan]

Do you have a link to any data showing intensity increases (with time) for the same bulb that exceed the measurement error? I haven't found any, and the only data I have seen shows the intensities at various wavelengths either staying the same or decreasing.
Not surprising, since the elemental makeup of the gasses doesn't change much with age.

 

[Opiy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7109963#post7109963 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jdieck
I would try a better skimmer if possible.

I do plan to get a Deltec APF600 soon but its intended for the 120g I am slowly putting together.

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7112794#post7112794 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dnjan
Do you have a link to any data showing intensity increases (with time) for the same bulb that exceed the measurement error? I haven't found any, and the only data I have seen shows the intensities at various wavelengths either staying the same or decreasing.
Not surprising, since the elemental makeup of the gasses doesn't change much with age.

I do not think the intensity increases with time but that the shift in spectrum promotes growth more than what any decrease in intensity will diminish it because the intensity we apply in our tanks required by the corals (specially sps) is many times higher than what an algae needs to develop. We just need to compare the amount of lighting we use in our refugiums compared to what we strive for in the main tank to see the difference.

I have not found any data either other than what Sanjey's comparison made some years ago between new and old bulbs.
Manufacturers do not want us to know
I really do not think it is something they know or really control. When a bulb is manufactured it is filled with a propietary mix of gases and vapors of halogens. Upon the first start they react with each other to achieve the proper plasma, This reaction is not perfect and can not be totally controlled, you see some of the initial depositions of impurities and resulting compounds that get attached to the internal surface of the bulb. As the bulb ages the electrodes get consumed increasing the arc length shape and affecting the way the plasma is excited resulting in the shift.
Some bulbs and ballasts are better than others. Good quality electronic ballasts are designed to detect this and compensate.

 

[reg828]

feeding is also contributor to high nutrients specilly flake foods.

 

[Opiy]

I was thinking that flake food would be much less in contributing to the algea. I might just start feeding some Formular Two instead and see if that may help in reducing the algae.

I tried moving the power heads around and all that done was make the cyano into long strings moving around in the current heeh.

 

[dnjan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7114365#post7114365 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jdieck
I do not think the intensity increases with time but that the shift in spectrum promotes growth more than what any decrease in intensity will diminish it because the intensity we apply in our tanks required by the corals (specially sps) is many times higher than what an algae needs to develop. We just need to compare the amount of lighting we use in our refugiums compared to what we strive for in the main tank to see the difference.

This is what is confusing me. If nothing in the lighting is increasing as the bulb ages, how is an aging bulb (and the apparent color shift) responsible for increasing cyano (or any other nuisance algae) growth?

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7123730#post7123730 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dnjan
This is what is confusing me. If nothing in the lighting is increasing as the bulb ages, how is an aging bulb (and the apparent color shift) responsible for increasing cyano (or any other nuisance algae) growth?

Because the spectrum shift not only happens with the reduction of one peak versus the others in the spectrum but the actual displacement of it toward the green and yellows. In other words an aging bulb can have lower overall intensity but a higher intensity in the average toward red green and yellow.
In a spectrum chart see it as a horizontal displacement and not only a vertical reduction in magnitude.

 

[dnjan]

I didn't think that there was, or even could be a shift (horizontally) of the actual peaks. Unless, of course, either nuclear fission or nuclear fusion occurs.
I was under the impression that the various peaks were atom-specific.

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7124562#post7124562 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dnjan
I didn't think that there was, or even could be a shift (horizontally) of the actual peaks. Unless, of course, either nuclear fission or nuclear fusion occurs.
I was under the impression that the various peaks were atom-specific.

No, a simple filter, splash shield, dirty glass or internal gas pressure, arc or field shape and internal burn outs can shift the spectrum. Even the angle of incidence of light under water and the water transparency and or depth itself can shift the spectrum.

 

[aubee91]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7124562#post7124562 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dnjan
I didn't think that there was, or even could be a shift (horizontally) of the actual peaks. Unless, of course, either nuclear fission or nuclear fusion occurs.
I was under the impression that the various peaks were atom-specific.

I can't speak about a spectrum shift, but the first and only time I've seen cyano in my tank was when I blew out a bulb. While I was waiting to get a replacement the side of my tank without the bulb started growing cyano. When I got the new bulb the cyano was gone within a day.

I assumed that maybe the cyano was getting some yellow light from a nearby window, but I can't be sure if that was it. If so, it didn't need much yellow to grow. Or maybe the lack of light cut down on oxygenation of the water due to less photosynthetic activity by the algae. Whatever it was, the light knocked it right back out.

 

[dnjan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7124861#post7124861 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jdieck
No, a simple filter, splash shield, dirty glass or internal gas pressure, arc or field shape and internal burn outs can shift the spectrum. Even the angle of incidence of light under water and the water transparency and or depth itself can shift the spectrum.

Are you saying that these things can change the individual wavelengths of the light? or just change the apparent overall spectrum by reducing some of the wavelengths?

It is my understanding that the wavelengths do not change as a bulb ages (due to the physics of the process of producing the light). However, the perceived spectrum can change when some of the wavelengths are reduced in amplitude (intensity).

But, photosynthesis does not respond to perceived spectrum. Photosynthesis responds to specific wavelengths of light, and the various algaes (using the term loosely) are sensitive to different wavelengths. Overall spectrum is basically an aesthetic thing.

If the nutrient level in a tank is low enough, desirable algaes could out-compete the undesirable algaes for those remaining nutrients when there is enough light intensity at the wavelengths preferred by the desirable algae. But that doesn't mean that the bulb is not producing wavelengths that support photosynthesis in the undesirable algaes as well. Instead, the undesirable algae is being controlled by nutrient limitation.

When nuisance algaes occur, the first place to look is at nutrients. Nuisance algaes are very opportunistic, and their favourite opportunity is excess nutrients.

 

[whalloper]

Its a bacteria apparently...I got rid of it very easily by increasing flow, shortening light duration, and using Chemi-Clean. I hate the idea of using Chemi-Clean, but all my corals were fine (even SPS) and it TOTALLY WORKED!!!