Cement Reef Take #2

[dugg]

hEY Schmit, how about you put the lamborgini purchase off an extra month, and buy a 140 gallon tank like Wayne has set up, and use your 75 for a sump ????? Or if you want i could maybe help you drill the one you have and do the holes in the back. I already have the bits you need to drill with, and i have a few spare minutes to spend, seeing as i don't believe in work. It's hard on you lol.

 

[dugg]

Just realized i forgot a sump picture.

 

[dugg]

I have monitored the PH now for 24 hrs and all is good. It was at 8.23 when i set it up, dropped to 8.06 over night and is now at 8.25, so the cement has had no effect at all on the PH. The initial PH test before curing in the cement tank was 8.95 and dropped about .05 to .10 each day while in the curring process. Total curing time was only 7 days, and consisted of atleast 10 water changes, which was due to the RIT dye that i used. The dye looks really good but was a total pain in the *%#.

 

[OscarBeast]

Dugg.

Looks great. Bad news on my front. Found out yesterday that my tank is Tempored so I can't drill for overflow/returns.

Going to have to rethink my plans on a live reef tank. Possably just set up a simple salt tank to "get my feet wet" while I gather more experience then get another tank and set up a live reef.

How about going sumpless (a sump not necessary for a reef tank)? Or U-Tube type siphon overflows?

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

Mine should be done curing soon, but Im waiting for the noodles to dissolve. I have a few pieces that didn't crumble away. Any recommendations on how to speed up the process?

 

[dugg]

If you mean the rocks curing, just yaest and sugar (1pkg dry yeast, 1/2 cup sugar. and a powerhead. If you mean the noodles, try boiling the rocks to cook them out. (DON"T USE VINIGAR) it will disolve the cement. I just say that because i saw someone mention using vinigar the other day. Vinigar is and acid. You can also buble CO2 into the water or drop some dry ice in, which will produce co2.
If you are using a regular ph test kit, measure mid to late day only as the PH rises normally thoughout the day. It is best to use a ph monitor. When the mid day PH is 8.3 or below, they are ready. I scrubbed mine with a brush and rinsed them 3 or 4 times before putting them in the tank.

 

[OscarBeast]

I see nothing wrong with using a mild vinegar solution. IIRC, CO2 + water = carbonic acid. Using a mild acid is the point. There is a lot of free lime in the concrete you are using. Lime is made from limestone by heating it and forcing it to release the CO2.

Cement isn't calcium carbonate (limestone), or at least it isn't supposed to be. If environmental damage converts the lime into calcium carbonate, it rusts out the metal reinforcement, which is a bad thing in buildings and bridges. In your case however, you want to convert that free lime (at least on the outer layers) into calcium carbonate using a weak acid, such as carbonic acid. That way it doesn't hop up your pH.

Too much CO2 will "dissolve" your cement as well. Think about how calcium reactors work and why you have to have a tank of CO2 and where that media disappears to...

 

[dugg]

Here is a pretty decent picture of the finished tank. It has a few months of growing to do before it's filled in but i am quite happy with the results. I just need a better camera now so i can get some good pictures that do it justice.

 

[Schmit]

Dugg (and everyone)

Thanks for the responses. Nope, I found Two stickers on the bottom of the tank and the first thing I did was call Wayne. The one that said "Tempored Glass" was not the big one as I knew from talking to you and Wayne that the bottom could be the only side Tempored. It was the other one that Wayne was familure with and when I discribed it to him he knew the make of tank and said that if the Tempored Glass sticker had also included "Bottom" it would have been fine. Unfortunitly, it says Tempored Glass (only) which means then entire thing is Tempored.

Oh well. I also don't want any U Tubes coming over the back of the take... estetics (sp?) don't ya know.

But Dugg has kind of come up with what our plans are now. Start off with a simple 75 gal Salt Tank with live rock and a few fisheys... eventually add some small simple easy corals.

After we get more experienced get a 120 gal tank, set it up for Reef with all kinds of kewl things and use the 75 as the sump.

I have to remember... baby steps... BABY STEPS. :rollface:

 

[Bishop]

dugg: indeed you do have to put the RIT dye in the water, and you have to do it very sparringly...

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

After this weekend I think I will try to boil the noodles out to save as many rocks as I can. I would hate to loose about 50 lbs. of rock. Any other suggestions on eating away at the pasta?

 

[dugg]

Any other suggestions on eating away at the pasta?

A fork and some good pasta sauce, maybe a little parmasian.

There may be some kind of bug like meal worms that would clean it up. That is what they do at Skulls unlimited up on south shields to clean skeletons.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

Well, it would have to be a hardy aquatic species since I have the rocks still sitting in the tub soaking.

 

[chris4693]

Dugg, Skulls Unlimited isn't next the to water garden place anymore. In fact It has been a few years, not sure if they are even still in business. But anyway wen't by there years ago and picked up some of those worms, it was a very interesting place.

 

[dugg]

He must have just moved to a bigger location because that guy was making a fortune selling that stuff to evryone from colleges to movie prop companies.

Actually Travis i doubt that the pasta will hurt anything anyway. It should be totally inert. If anything the fish will probably eat it all. Just clean it out the best you can and try one rock to see.

 

[lunkerbunker]

dugg,

how's everything. the tank looks great!!! i just spoke with wayne today and was planning to order 1 of his skimmers. can you please give me an update on how the skimmers working for you and also does the skimmer produce lots of micro bubbles? please lmk

thanks

 

[dugg]

I started a new thread on the skimmer update.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=628296
It is working great and producing skimmate the same on my small system as it is on wayne's 140gallon system.

 

[masterswimmer]

dugg, I've read your entire thread. You've created an inspirational tank my friend. Thank you. Hope you don't mind if I coat tail on some of your ideas.

Just a few questions. I know you said you put all of your returns on the bottom. What do you do in a power outage? Won't your whole tank drain?

Doesn't the salt water eat away at the cement? I was always told not to salt a concrete walkway. The fact that this is cement, does that react differently to salt than concrete does?

Did you spread the cement on one wall at a time? If you did it all at once, how did you get it to stay on without falling off?

If you were to do it over, would you cement the bottom? What did you do with the sides of the tank that meet the front glass? How did you hide the exposed ends of the foam? Did you just cut it a little short and just cement the edge?

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm considering this on my 16 gallon bow. And I'd like to learn from your experience. Just beautiful. Looks sooo natural.

Thanks again,
Russ

 

[masterswimmer]

3 - Use existing lights (normal floresent tank lights) fill tank with salt water and get that right. (1 month ?)

4 - Add live rock and a few fishies. Let this perk and see if they survive. (1 month ?)

4 - Add simple (i.e. normal lighting) corals and see if they live.

Schmit, you've got a bit of your process a little skewed. You state in step 3 that you want to fill the tank with saltwater and let it go for a month.

Then you want to add LR and a few fish (first step 4).

You should be adding the LR when you fill with saltwater to a salinity of 1.026. This will give the LR a chance to do two things. First it will cure the LR (allow die-off of any dying and decaying organisms). Second those dying and decaying organisms will begin the cycle of your tank.

If you add fish at the same time you add your LR, you are likely to stress and kill those fish. After adding LR, you should experience a spike in ammonia (lethal to fish at high levels). If you don't have fish in there, no problem. The ammonia will facilitate the growth of the bacteria that breaks down the ammonia to nitrites. Then the next phase of the cycle begins, the bacteria grows that breaks the nitrites down to nitrates.

Once you test your tank and your ammonia spiked and goes down to zero, then your nitrites spike and return to zero, then your nitrates spike and return to < 10 then you can add fish. Your cycle will have been completed.

Dugg, sorry to have hijacked your thread. I just wanted to clarify some things for your buddy Schmit.

Good luck,
Russ

 

[dugg]

#1 I drilled release holes at the top of each return pipe to break the syphon in the event the electric goes out.
#2 The salt has no effect on the cement, Wayne's tank has been set up for quite a while and shows no sign of deterioration.
#The cement goes on in layers , 3 light layers a day apart to stiffen everything and then you just kind of slop it in there and build it up in layers.
#4 The front edges of the foam are exposed at first but will cover with coraline very fast and dissapear in just a few weeks. Mine are purple from the dye i used and don't show at all.
#5 If i did it again (I WILL DEFFINATLY MAKE ANOTHER ONE). Yes the floor not only holds everything together in one piece, but is also a very natural looking bottom in areas with no sand or if you were going to run bare bottom it would look awsome. When i do another one, i will leave out the front strip of foam and leave only the plastic between the cement and the glass in the front, and pour it level with the trim so i can run it bare bottom.
#6 the foam goes all the way to the front glass, it will shrink back just a little from the cement drying but don't worry about it, it will be undetectable in a few weeks.

Thank you for the compliments, I fell in love with Wayne's tank the first time i saw it and had to build one for myself. When it gets grown in, it will look like a natural reef instead of a glass box full of rocks and coral. I will build another one that is bigger down the road. Actually i can't seee ever putting another tank up without taking the time to cement it. I give all the credit for this tank to Wayne Sallee, owner of Wayne's Pets in Eustis Florida. He invented the process, i just followed his directions. If you take a good look at my set up you will see that the entire system is running on one cap1800 pump, with no powerheads, air pumps or anything else, this includes the skimmer, which is all Wayne's creation. Simplistic perfection i think, and so far my fish a corals seem to agree