Central Sump Help

[InsaneClownFish]

I've started work on my central sump project, but I'm concerned I may have to revisit an issue I dealt with upon initial setup. I just cut and posted a section from my build thread below to get some advice here. I've drilled out a 44 Brute that I am feeding, through two walls, from the main sump of my current system. My plan is to use the Brute as a central sump for an additional tank:

Last night drove me nuts. The drain line was way to big for the amount of water being pumped in and I would get a flushing toilet from the 44 Brute. At one point, there was too much water pumping in and I have no idea how that was happening. I moved the pump around and ended up with a STRONG flow out of the 44 Brute that would effectively raise the water in the sump underneath the tank. After countless attempts at adjustments with adding smaller pieces of drain line, I decided to straighten out the return line and cut some excess length off. This had a very minimal effect.

I eventually just kept playing with extra vinyl tubing by adding reducers to both ends of the drain. Finally, at around 4:30am I found a balance. All the levels seem to be remaining the same. At one point it appeared it was the same but would slowly lower the level of the water in the Brute.

Besides using a larger Maxijet than the 900, or installing a ball valve on the drain, is there something I can do to reduce the flow from the drain? (yes a larger pump would not reduce the flow but may match it better) Incase I run into this imbalance in the future, is there a something I can do to keep the return and drain from the Brute balanced? There must be a trick! I'm sure there is something I am missing.

 

[erbgo]

to get it to match is almost imposible what I did was add an external return and make the in tank return into an emergency over flow so then you can add a valve to the main drain and if the flow picks up the other drain takes the extra and when the flow is ok the line stays empty and the main drain does not sound like it is flushing I hope I did not confuse you if I did call me

 

[InsaneClownFish]

:spin2:

 

[sploke]

What kind of overflow are you using on the tank? Drilled/RR type setup, or external overflow box, and what size bulkheads? Or are you actually using a pump to get water from the tank to the sump?

Here are some pics of my central sump setup, although the sump has been swapped out for a different one and the wiring and plumbing has been cleaned up a little, you can get an idea. This sump runs 2x150, a 55 and a 30 (all FW but the principle is the same).

And the Hofer Gurgle Busters I use in the overflows to keep them quiet

 

[AwkwardParrot]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14150375#post14150375 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by InsaneClownFish
:spin2:

you said a mouthful, lol. how many tanks are you running off of one sump? what is the flow rate out of each tank? and when you plum up for every foot you loose pressure out of the pump (exc. out of a mag 5, you pipe up 4 feet to a tank, you get a little less that 300gph).

let me know if that helped or confused you....

 

[InsaneClownFish]

Thanks guys. Sploke that gurgle buster and those overflow boxes are the key.

Thanks to token on the DIY forum and melev, all of your help paid off. In my ramblings here and my discussion with "melev" through pm I determined that lifting the drain higher out of the water wouldn't solve my issue. The only way to keep the water level consistent was to install a box or standpipe inside the Brute.

So on my way home from work this morning I stopped at Lowes and snagged some plumbing parts and had the standpipe built in 5 minutes. I had to use parts from the upstairs tank so I'll have to replace those. I also added some silicone around the return outlet bulkhead as there was a miniscule drip, and I removed the reducers from both ends of the drain.

The water level is now consistent and the Sump is performing as designed! I'll post pictures soon.

As far as your concerns(token) about the Brute humidity, the sump will be run covered, as the main tank and 40 Breeder sump provide a massive surface area for evap/exchange etc. This is right across from my RO/DI unit, so it is convenient. It is even on a dolly, so if need be it can be disconnected and moved on the fly. The height of the Brute is critical for this to work, or I would need to completely remove my 40 breeder sump and take down part of a wall to use the tub as you suggested- or to use a large pump to return back from the tub.

 

[InsaneClownFish]

Thanks guys. Sploke that gurgle buster and those overflow boxes are the key.

Thanks to token on the DIY forum and melev, all of your help paid off. In my ramblings here and my discussion with "melev" through pm I determined that lifting the drain higher out of the water wouldn't solve my issue. The only way to keep the water level consistent was to install a box or standpipe inside the Brute.

So on my way home from work this morning I stopped at Lowes and snagged some plumbing parts and had the standpipe built in 5 minutes. I had to use parts from the upstairs tank so I'll have to replace those. I also added some silicone around the return outlet bulkhead as there was a miniscule drip, and I removed the reducers from both ends of the drain.

The water level is now consistent and the Sump is performing as designed! I'll post pictures soon.

As far as your concerns(token) about the Brute humidity, the sump will be run covered, as the main tank and 40 Breeder sump provide a massive surface area for evap/exchange etc. This is right across from my RO/DI unit, so it is convenient. It is even on a dolly, so if need be it can be disconnected and moved on the fly. The height of the Brute is critical for this to work, or I would need to completely remove my 40 breeder sump and take down part of a wall to use the tub as you suggested- or to use a large pump to return back from the tub.

 

[InsaneClownFish]

The stand pipe I built this morning:

Up and running with a consistent waterline tonight:

 

[sploke]

I'm still confused. Is the water level in the trash can at a higher level than wherever the tank is? Maintaining a constant level in your sump means any changes in water volume are going to show up in your tank.

 

[InsaneClownFish]

sploke, yes it is. The 44 Brute has no effect on the water volume in the main display. I think I explain it best here:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=14164550#post14164550

When I do a water change, I now use the 44 Brute to remove water. It lowers levels in the 44 Brute and the 44 Breeder slightly, but the water level in the main display remains constant. The water level in both sumps also no remains constant.

 

[sploke]

Haha ok I get it now....hey if you had just said, the Brute can is acting as a secondary holding tank in order to tie an upstairs tank and downstairs tank together with the downstairs sump taking all the volume change, I would have gotten it the first time

 

[InsaneClownFish]

Haha ok I get it now....hey if you had just said, the Brute can is acting as a secondary holding tank in order to tie an upstairs tank and downstairs tank together with the downstairs sump taking all the volume change, I would have gotten it the first time

:lol: I am WAY too verbose.