CHILLER: If you have one, come on in! Few ??'s

[coralfarmer84]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7694922#post7694922 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by moonpod
I got something for you to look into. Deltec ecocooler.

Can I have a link Moonpod. I'm looking into this right now.

Thanks everyone for the advise. My tank is not going on an outside wall, but the attic is above the tank, could i put the chiller in my canopy and vent it to the attic or would that cause too much heat and make the chiller run poorly? My canopy will look like part of the ceiling so that would be easy enough to do....

 

[coralfarmer84]

I can't find one that is in american money and sizes... all british.

 

[steveweast]

Deltec is a sponsor on this site. Contact Doug at Deltec through the Deltec forum. I would not put your chiller in the hood. A chiller's efficiency is a function of how cool the air that feeds it is.... and....chillers, especially big chillers, are noisy....and....chillers need to be cleaned out with vinegar once a year to remove crap that builds up on the exchange coils. If you don't make it easily accessible, it will never get cleaned. You don't want it in the house. My tank is not on an outside wall either....I ran the supply and feed lines through the crawl. There is always a way to get it done right....you just have to find a way. No one said this is easy.

 

[moonpod]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=867593

Link Removed

 

[Cuby2k]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7697152#post7697152 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by steveweast
Yes....the units should have read volts instead of watts....but, the bottom line number doesn't change. I did check the draw this morning....and it's pulling over 9amps @110v. Are you sure about the 4 ton unit ? I just checked the rating on my 5 ton house AC unit and it pulls 45 amps @ 240v. It's an older unit, but if there's a 5 ton unit out there that draws less....I'd switch it out.

Well I have egg on my face Steve, I swear I was testing a 4.0 ton unit and the amperage draw was a little over 8.0 on each leg the other day but the I just looked at the name plate and it states 13.6 amps at 230 volt and it's a 3-ton, so my bad. Still lower than what you are experiencing on your home unit (pro-rated) but it clearly shows I was off on my numbers. My apologies.

I did some checking into the efficiency ratings of small water chillers and I couldn't find where they are restricted by any government energy ratings. I know that small rooftop units and packaged window units don't fall under the new minimum 13.0 SEER rating as are residential condensing units so I assume that these small chillers don't either. That is one thing I find frustrating about these packaged chillers, they indicate the trade HP rating but neglect to indicate the BTUH rating. Unless we know that capacity there can be no fair evaluation.

I would guess that your residential unit is 10 SEER and I know that 14 SEER units are not uncommon so you could save a few bucks on your monthly electrical costs by upgrading. Whether or not it pays back the investment you wouldn't be able to say until you got a bid for the replacement cost.

My house has a 5-ton roof top unit and a 3-ton split system and the older unit is 10 SEER or less I know. To replace the unit will not pay me back on the investment for over 10 years so I am going to wait until it poops out and/or until the rooftop equipment has the higher ratings.

I wasn't able to connect with my buddy to check his 1/2 HP chiller to test the actual power use but I will and I will post the info here when I do, just FYI.

Bottom line is I agree with your numbers on the packaged chillers and it hurts!

I am not quite at the point I need a chiller but when I do I am going to buy a small window unit and provide a split titanium chiller barrel so I can place the condensing unit outdoors and get rid of the heat gain to the space. it's cost a bit more than a packaged chiller but it won't be placing the load on my home units.

BTW, I checked out the worm you had and WOW, that'l keep me awake at night for a while.

Cuby

 

[coralfarmer84]

All i can say now is Hopefully i can get away without a chiller... and if not then i'll have to suck it up. I have a 240 now in ohio and no chiller but sometimes when its 90 out and my family doesn't turn the AC on the temp has seen 84, but thats makes me nervous so I dont' want that to happen anymore.

Nobody with a before and after bill? Appreciate the indepth you guys are going into.

Ryan

 

[steveweast]

Bottom line is.....if you have a large tank, you should have a chiller. The eventual investment in the inhabtants pale in comparission to the cost of a chiller. You don't, one day, to face a heatwave (which wil come) without a chiller......which will put at risk thousands of dollars of livestock. I can understand a small tank which has a much smaller investment involved.....and could be controlled through other means......but, not a large tank which eventualy wil be housing a huge investment. Even if you don't need to run the chiller on a daily basis, it's priceless to have that insurance policy and peace of mind. Every summer, there are many threads on how the heat wiped out their tank....you don't want to be one of them. On a final note....if you're setting up a large tank....and you're concerned with the affordability of a $50 jump in the power bill.....perhaps you should re-evaluate setting up the large tank as a reef in the first place. There are going to many more monthly expenses that are more than that. Big reef tanks demand big budgets.

 

[Cuby2k]

Hey if you run AC in your home you are going to pay the price anyway. That heat has to go someplace and exhausting the hood into your room while trying to maintain a 75 deg ambient ain't free. Your home unit is going to be more efficient than a chiller but without it you are reducing the capacity of your home system. It is already trying to absorb the heatgain from the tank itself. I also agree that the ambient temp has much less effect on the tank temp on larger systems, where the limiting line occurs is a not the same in every situation.

If I recall Steve, you have your chiller located in your garage, right? I think that is about as good as it gets because your house AC doesn't foot the load (regardless of the amperage)(oops, sorry Steve) . My plan is to place the compressor and condenser portion outdoors but we rarely get freezing temps here so it's less of a problem in that regard.

AND very long term, I am going to build a cooling tower evap cooler similar ONLY BETTER than the Deltec eco-cooler. Thanks for the link moonpod. (Although I noticed it is no longer active)

 

[Cuby2k]

AND, one more thing, please bear with me.

Although a chiller is expensive and expensive to operate, I am completely convinced that in the effort to jerry-rig or try to skirt the issue, you will spend more in the long run.

I know that splitting a window cooler to place the condenser outdoors is going to cost more than a packaged chiller. Even if you take into account the lower operating costs.

AND, I know that building my own cooling tower evap cooler will be more costly than just plunking down the bucks for a deltec eco chiller.

AND, I have priced the costs of a geothermal cooler where the only operating costs are the pumping of the fluid but the first costs are higher still.

The bottom line is the reason I got into this hobby in the first place. Hey I like fish, but I like to eat 'em too, I don't love 'em. And I love the colors of coral and watching them grow is akin to the love of gardening or even building something. But making things work, building the thing up and tinkering is what's it's all about IMO.

And that's all I have to say about that.

:rollface:

 

[steveweast]

Cuby2

I have two 2hp chillers that are both located outside of the house(they used to be in my crawlspace; but, I relocated them 2 years ago to the outside where they should be). I built a little roof over them to protect them somewhat from the elements. I have two because of my fear over losing chilling capacity. One is enough to provide all my cooling needs....but, two provides the peace of mind for me. I have them set .5 degrees apart.....if the primary fails (or gets overwhelmed)....the second kicks on. I rotate which is the primary chiller every three months so that they wear evenly. I can also take one offline for a few days for cleaning and not disrupt operations. I've never been a fan of double handling the heat.....dumping heat into the house and then removing that heat to the outside seems like a waste to me. Even dumping the heat into my garage (as you suspected) wouldn't work.....there's just too much heat......the garage would become Vegas in July.

 

[falcondob]

My experience on my 300 gallon:

Running a 1/3 hp drop-in chiller, four - 4 inch fans in the hood, and a Medusa temperature controller.
(1) The fans reduced the amount of time the chiller had to work. (2) Vented the air under the tank (sump and fuge) to the outside. Chiller/fans ran less still and house A/C ran less.
(3) Vented air from hood to outside. Chiller/fans ran less still and house A/C ran much less.

I live in San Antonio. High outside temp and high humidity (why do I live here again?).

Lights and pumps seem to have a bigger impact on the electricity bill than the fans and chiller.

 

[hawaiianwargod]

Very informative thread everyone!!!

 

[Phantom Phish]

Has anyone found any information on the efficiency of an evaporative chiller like the Delte Eco Cooler in environments with higher outside humidity? I live in Georgia, and I'm wondering if a chiller like that is practical in our area (given fairly high summer temps and humidity), versus a more traditional refrigerant based chiller.

 

[hawaiianwargod]

Phantom Phish,

pm Fliger...he has one.