Chiller plumbing?

J

jantu02

New member
I am having trouble deciding how to plumb my chiller for my 30 gallon finnex tank. The tank has a built in sump/refugium located in the back section of the tank behind a false wall. The chiller has a minimum flow through of 100 GPH.

The dilema I am having is whether I should plumb the chiller with an external pump (such as an Eheim 1260) pulling water from the main sump area and returning it to the skimmer section of the sump or replace the stock pump (rated 475GPH) with a ViaAqua 3300 rated at 977GPh and spliting the output into lines, one to feed the chiller and one to act the main return. Since the output on the pump is 3/4" I would have to reduce the lines from 3/4" to one 1/2" line for the chiller and one 5/8" line to act as the return. I don't know what impact this reduction with have on the preformance of the pump.

I am not familiar with either pump as this is my first attempt at setting up a reef tank. I have heard good things about Eheim pumps as it relates to running them externally. ViaAqua pumps I have not heard too much about. The ony reason I chose them is that they are one of the few pumps that will fit in the pump compartment of the sump.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
I'd put the minimum pump necessary on a loop to the chiller and call it done.

If I understand your set up correctly. Trying to split a "main pump" into two directions is going to be a problem ensuring that you have the appropriate flow through rate on the chiller. AND a plumbing challenge with valves, splits etc....

Buy the smallest eheim you can set it outside and plumb it directly into your sump would be the easiest. I'd pull water out of and back into the area where the "sump's" return pump is. There will always be good circulation in the area to ensure you get a steady temperature throughout the aquarium.

The only challenge is going to be getting the pump primed, you are going to have to find a way to suck water out of the tank into the pump and into the chiller and then start the pump. You may have to do this manually (yes with your mouth). Once it is up and running, the suction line will have to STAY UNDER WATER in the sump or it will lose it's "prime". Check marinedepot for some plumbing parts built for canister filters. I think they have some hang over the back fixtures that would work well here.

FWIW
 
I was leaning in that direction as well. The more I think about it the harder I realize it would be to try and split the output from the submersible pump in such a small space. The external pump would be much easier.

Is Eheim a good pump for this application or should I look at something else? I would like to keep it as quiet as possible, and I have heard good things these pumps.

As far as priming the pump, I hadn't really though of that. What do you think of this for pulling water out of the pump:

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_plumbing_parts_fittings_pentair_aquatics_customflo.asp#tube

Do you think this would work if I start the suction manually. It looks as though it would remain underwater enough in the sump to pull water... Also, couldn't I put a Y connector 1/2 way down the tubing to the chiller which would allow me pour water mannually down into the pump and just cap the open end during normal operation?
 
That link is almost exactly what I was thinking about. As far as putting a fitting to pour water into the pump with ..... To get the pump started there needs to be water from the pump all the way back up to the tank inlet (with no air). You could probaly get away with just sucking on the outlet side until water was all the way down the "inlet line" covering the pump impeller and partially into the outlet line. This way you arent sucking up tank water into your mouth....

Eheims are nearly silent and very dependable
I'd look at this pump ...

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=EH1250

Keep in mind when you fire the pump up, you are going to get a rush of air (bubbles) and then water.

HTH
 
Do you thin that would produce enough flow through the chiller?

The minimum flow through the unit is 100 GPH according to the manufactorer. I was planning on placing the pump and chiller underneath my tank in a custom stand which is open on all 4 sides for proper air circulation. The pump would need to pull water from the sump down through the chiller and back up. The pump would need to push the water approx. 4 - 5 feet back up to the sump. Is that going to be ok with that size pump rated for 317GPH, or should I go with thenext size up? Thanks.
 
Yeah, I just used the head loss calculator on the Reef Central Home page. You can go there and check but it said (numbers that I put in) with 4 90 degree elbows, 4' of vertical hose, 4' of horizontal hose the pump would still push 180 gph.

Eheims arent really designed for "high pressure" applications but I think you would be ok here. You could go with the next larger pump, but since it is only for a loop to a chiller, the pump I listed above will work fine.

Call the tech folks at Marine Depot. They're really nice and would be more than happy to help.

By the way, I'd size the tubing to the pump and or what the pump recomends since it's doing the work.

I've plumbed a few tanks with chillers used ehiems and would probably use this set up. Again, call the folks at M Depot. I wouldn't put all my marbles in one basket based on any one opinion....even though it's mine ;-)
 
Ok... I'll give them a call and see what they suggest. I used the same calculator and got pretty much the same results. Using a larger pump would probably be a bit of overkill for such a simple application.

One more question:
With regards to priming the pump, how would you suggest I go out doing that? I have never had to do this before so I am still a bit unclear as to the process. You had mentioned mannually starting the siphon using my mouth to pull water from the sump, down the tubing towards the pump? Once I get the water to start moving down the tubing should I use a stopper or my hand to plug the flow of water and then quickly attach the end of the hose to the inlet of the pump, this way water would fall into the pump? I hope this makes sense. Will stoping the flow of water once it starts moving down the tubing towards the pump cause the siphon to break? Is there another way to do this?
 
BTW... I just spoke with Marine Depot and they also recommended the Eheim 1250 for this application. Should push enough water through with no problem.
 
OK
To prime the pump... All hoses are connected to the pump as it will run (including the chiller.....) You basically have it right but dont need to stopper anything. Again, all the tubing / plumbing for the chiller loop is connected togather.
As you start the water moving down toward the pump, let it keep filling the pump and any line past the pump that it will.

To be clear you have the suction line from the pump to the tank in the water (with whatever fitting on it that you have determined to keep it in the water) This is the line that is going to pull water from the tank and push it through the chiller and back into to the tank. Again this line should be in the water in the back of the tank.

NOW. You are going to take the line that is returning from the chiller that is going back to the tank and suck on it. (with your mouth). Once the water has run down the line to the pump (and hopefully past it, possibly into the chiller, you are going to turn the pump on. BEFFORE turning the pump on you are going to point the pipe that you have been sucking on toward the tank in the area where the water is being pulled out. For a short time, the line will probably belch air and water. When the bubbles are purged from the line, you can place the return end of the line from the chiller in the water.

I think I already posted the following but.... I would pull the water out of and back into the same area of the sump. The best place to do this would be where the pump is that returns water back into the tank. This is a concentrated area of high flow that will allow the most consistent control of temp. I WOULD NOT pull water out of one area of the back and return it to another area. Doing this could force too much water (more than the sump can handle or try at least) and create an overflow.

Hope this long message clarifies your questions.
 
I just went through this, don't forget there is about 3 foot of head loss on the chiller that you have to add to your pumps flow rate. And about 1/2 a foot for each ellbow you put in your plumbing is a good rule of thumb.

Just my 2cents
 
Ok... thats make more sense now. I was trying to start the siphoning by sucking on the end of the hose that connects to the inlet of the pump. Your way seems much easier and will ensure that water reaches the pump.

I will take your advice and plumb both the inlet and return from the chiller in the same location in the sump... This main return pump for the system is located in this section of the sump and will help temp. remain consistent throughout.

Rich,
Based on what you have read do think I should go with the next sized Eheim, rated at 635GPH ? or should I stick with the Eheim 1250 (rated 317). The chiller needs 100GPH for proper functioning. I didn't even think of the additional head loss when the water passes through the chiller unit??? I was hoping to get away with the smaller pump for less noise output, but if I have to go bigger I will.
 
Well is the 100gph the min flow for the chiller if so you will want to go with the next size up or your chiller will allways stay on. try to get right to the middle of the flow rate of the chiller. I put my chiller in on the return line, cold water goes right to the main tank.I am using a mag 9.5 right in the sump.take your time and think it out every setup is different.
 
Based on this information I should aim for a flow rate of approx. 450 GPH, the middle of the recommended flow rate. I take it the 100 GPH is the minimum rate needed for the unit to operate and would cause the unit to run continually in order keep the temperature constant. I guess it makes more sense to run a higher flow rate through the chiller. I think i will go ahead and use the next size pump rated for 635 GPH (Eheim 1260). This will create nice flow through the unit based on the anticipated total head loss.
 
Do I have anything to worry about if for some reason my external pump should fail? I am a bit confused as to whether I should use a check valve to prevent the overflow of water. I would hate to empty my tank if my pump failed and I didn't take the necessary precautions. Should I use the check valve on the drain line from the sump to the pump or from the chiller back up to the main display or both? Any advice would be greatly appreciated...
 
check out Melev's site and look where he shows how a sump works it lays it all out for you on water comming back into to your sump. if you turn your pumps off and let the water come back into your sump you will see if you can add more water if its at the top don't add, then when you turn your pumps back on you mark that water line on the outside of your sump, thats your max water line if you never top off past that line your sump will never flood over.
http://www.melevsreef.com
 
Ok... makes sense now. If, however, I was just using an external pump on a closed loop I would not have to worry about flooding? Is that correct?
 
no... you still have to make shure there is room in your sump for the water that is in your lines when your pumps are off.
 
If the power goes off all the water inside a closed loop will stay inside. I am assuming that the pump, chiller and most of the tubing will be below the aquarium. As long as a power outage will not cause the suction and return line to stay below the water level in the back of the aquarium, there is nowhere for the water to overflow too. In your original post, you stated that the fuge, sump area is located in the back of the tank so you have no sump below the tank...In that case, there is no danger of overflow.
 
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