Chloroquine phosphate in a reef tank

[JoshuaG]

Curious if anyone has tried this new food that is supposedly coral safe to treat ich in their display tank? Sounds too good to be true!

http://www.drgsmarineaquaculture.com/frozen-antiparasitic.cfm

Anti-Parasitic Rx

Treats Ich, Brooklynella, Uronema, Crypto, Oodinium and many more parasites.

For Fresh Water and Marine Aquariums.

Will not affect your Biological Filter.

Medicated Frozen Banquet with No Preservatives, Binders or Gels 100 Grams (3.53 oz) Flat Pack

Coral Reef Safe. Treats your Fish, Not your Water!

Effective new treatment for several forms of marine and freshwater parasites, that can harm or kill your fish.

Extremely Effective on the following parasites:

Amyloodinium Ocellatum or Oodinium is a parasite that primarily attacks the gills. Symptoms include rapid respiration, lethargy, loss of appetite and color fading.

Brooklynella symptoms similar to Oodinium, but it also produces a heavy amount of slime. A thick whitish mucus covers the body, skin lesions appear and signs of secondary bacterial infections may arise.

Cryptocaryon or Marine Ich causes white spots (like grains of salt) on the surface of the fish. It may also cause breathing problems, abnormal swimming, a layer of mucus and cloudy eyes.

Uronema Marinum symptoms include rapid breathing, flashing, color fading, weight loss and dehydration. The fins of infected fish become slightly opaque and appear brittle with frayed edges.

Directions: Break off enough for 1 feeding. Do not defrost in water-allow the frozen food to soften at room temperature for a short period of time, then add the morsels to the aquarium.

To avoid any possibility of damage to invertebrates and corals, remove food that falls on corals with a turkey baster and use Dr.G's Chemical Filter and Phosphate Remover to remove any medication from the water that was not consumed.

Dosage: Depending on your tank size, break off a ½ inch square piece to start. Feeding should be completed in 1 minute-adjust size accordingly. Do not over feed. To treat or prevent parasitic infections, use as regular food every other day for up to 3 weeks. Repeat when new fish are added to your system. Allow at least 3 weeks between treatments.

Storage: Keep frozen at all times.

Active Ingredient: Chloroquine phosphate.

Exceptional Fresh Ingredients: Atlantic Shrimp, Squid, Aquacultured Oysters, Oyster Eggs, Scallops , Clams, Octopus, Pacific Cod, Gut Loaded Mysis & Krill, Freshly Harvested Dr.G's Rotifers, Freshly Hatched Baby Brine Shrimp, Adult Brine Shrimp, Arctic Cyclops, Green/Red Unroasted Nori, Garlic, Freshly Harvested Dr.G's Phytoplankton, Dr.G's Reef Essential Vitamins and Amino-acids.

Made in the USA.

 

[Steveb]

Sounds interesting. I would be willing to try it. In the Marine Fish Health and Feeding Handbook that is one of the methods of introducing the medication that is discussed. Sounds like Dr. G's is just capitalizing/commercializing it. Only thing I would be worried about is making sure that you are only feeding enough for the fish to eat. Any left overs become medication in the water and chloroquine is not invert friendly if I remember correctly.


duhhh they tell you in the instructions to be careful not to overfeed. Now that I read it closer I'm not sure how they are binding the medication in frozen food. I can see flakes/pellets having the medication mixed in. I guess other question would be how do we know when the fish have received a therapeutic dose?

 

[MrTuskfish]

There have been a few posts on this stuff, seems interesting. I don't think CP is invert safe; using it in a reef would seem "iffy" at best. So far, many ''reef safe" parasite cures have shown up and none seem to work. I haven't seen anything that explains how external parasites can be killed by eating a medication. I know it can be done with other animals, but this stuff is claiming to kill such a wide range of parasites......but I'd love to see some reports of how and if it works. If this was the "reef-safe kills-all parasites" pot of gold that everyone has been looking for, word will spread like wildfire. There have (and still are) various medicated foods on the market; the biggest problem seems to be getting fish to eat them.

 

[Steveb]

I haven't seen anything that explains how external parasites can be killed by eating a medication. I know it can be done with other animals, but this stuff is claiming to kill such a wide range of parasites.....

I believe its the same concept. Fish eats food with drug. Drug increases to therapeutic level in fishes blood/tissue. Parasite feeds on fish and in turn ingests drug. Parasite dies. At least that is what i have read. All of the parasites listed feed and reproduce in a somewhat similar manner.

refer to pg. 146 of The Marine Health & Feeding Handbook by Goemans and Ishinotsubo. Has a discussion on use with parasites listed by vendor.

using it in a reef would seem "iffy" at best.

Yep I agree would make me nervous.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I believe its the same concept. Fish eats food with drug. Drug increases to therapeutic level in fishes blood/tissue. Parasite feeds on fish and in turn ingests drug. Parasite dies. At least that is what i have read. All of the parasites listed feed and reproduce in a somewhat similar manner.

That's what I'm assuming too. Is quite a coincidence that a drug that kills the parasites on contact would also kill them when ingested. Maybe just the parasite's contact with the fish's blood would be fatal. Getting every fish to carry a fatal dose of CP must be a real problem. All it would take is one fish that didn't like the stuff, or get enough of it, to keep the parasites cycle intact. This stuff may be more of a benefit to those who chose to "manage" ich (I'm not in that group), than an actual cure for all the parasites mentioned. But if brook or velvet gets into a reef tank, and the owner can't/won't (as seems to often be the case) get all fish into QT, then just saving some of the fish would be a moral victory.

 

[namxas]

Very interesting...I wonder how predatory species such as lionfish would accept the food, maybe even as an alternative to prophylactic meds added to the QT.

I suppose, depending on the fish, one might simply inject/stuff silversides or whatever with CP...

 

[snorvich]

Very interesting...I wonder how predatory species such as lionfish would accept the food, maybe even as an alternative to prophylactic meds added to the QT.

I suppose, depending on the fish, one might simply inject/stuff silversides or whatever with CP...

Interesting idea. I would suspect that if you can get CP into their food, when the food is ingested, you are delivering it to the bloodstream. More work on this would be terrific.

 

[Iskandar]

It's an anti-malaria drug. So it kills ciliates. Definitely should work, even from within the fish. Even better, locked up in the bloodstream and fish tissues, doesn't get to corals and inverts.

 

[BBraker]

I've rarely heard of Chloroquine being used orally on fish. It is very bitter - other bitter drugs have not worked well orally with fish (e.g. metronidazole). Also, the human pediatric dose is tiny; 5mg/kg and apparently fatal at only 10x that dose - so there is not much margin of error. To dose it, you would need to calculate the weight of your fish, then assume they feed at say, 3% of their body weight/day, then make up a diet that contains the proper amount of chloroquine....a difficult task. So - if you had 1kg of fish in your tank, you would feed them 30 grams of medicated food. That 30 grams of food would need to contain 5mg of Chloroquine...obviously, you would need to make up a large batch of food to avoid having to measure tiny quantities of drug....if I did the math right, it would be 166mg in 1000 grams of food.

IMO - Chloroquine is DEFINATELY not reef-safe. At 15ppm, it kills a wide range of algae, bacteria, protozoans and even flatworms. With that broad of a killing spectrum, it would wreak havoc in a reef tank.

Back in the 1970's we used "Marex" to control Cryptocaryon and Amyloodinium. It was great - AND it had the side effect of keeping the dead coral decorations in our tanks nice and white and free of algae!


Bill

 

[MrTuskfish]

I've rarely heard of Chloroquine being used orally on fish. It is very bitter - other bitter drugs have not worked well orally with fish (e.g. metronidazole). Also, the human pediatric dose is tiny; 5mg/kg and apparently fatal at only 10x that dose - so there is not much margin of error. To dose it, you would need to calculate the weight of your fish, then assume they feed at say, 3% of their body weight/day, then make up a diet that contains the proper amount of chloroquine....a difficult task. So - if you had 1kg of fish in your tank, you would feed them 30 grams of medicated food. That 30 grams of food would need to contain 5mg of Chloroquine...obviously, you would need to make up a large batch of food to avoid having to measure tiny quantities of drug....if I did the math right, it would be 166mg in 1000 grams of food.

IMO - Chloroquine is DEFINATELY not reef-safe. At 15ppm, it kills a wide range of algae, bacteria, protozoans and even flatworms. With that broad of a killing spectrum, it would wreak havoc in a reef tank.

Back in the 1970's we used "Marex" to control Cryptocaryon and Amyloodinium. It was great - AND it had the side effect of keeping the dead coral decorations in our tanks nice and white and free of algae!


Bill

"Tetra-Oohmed" or something like that, was a great product too. Of course, we didn't have little things like corals are other inverts to worry about. I guess the search for a reef-safe (and effective, damn! that's always the catch) cure for parasites continues. But the market for stuff that doesn't work is still thriving. At the same time, QT set ups are still cheap. Something ain't right, somewhere.

 

[asonitez]

i really want to try this product but can't find it anywhere

 

[Steveb]

Google fish Chloroquine phosphate

aw heck here

http://www.fishchemical.com/Products-CHLOROQUINE-PHOSPHATE-22937.Item.html

http://www.fishmoxfishflex.com/inde...r-chloroquine-phosphate-fish-antibiotics.html

as least they both say they have stock...

 

[asonitez]

Google fish Chloroquine phosphate

aw heck here

http://www.fishchemical.com/Products-CHLOROQUINE-PHOSPHATE-22937.Item.html

http://www.fishmoxfishflex.com/inde...r-chloroquine-phosphate-fish-antibiotics.html

as least they both say they have stock...

lol thanks..

I'm looking for DR.G's medicated Fish food tho lol

 

[Steveb]

Have you checked here? They list it but I don't know if it is actually in stock...

http://www.petsplusfl.com/products/Dr.-G%27s-Marine-Aquaculture-%252d-Frozen-Fish-Food.html

Most of our local stores don't carry anything exotic... unless 3 or 4 of us get together and buy at one time..

 

[asonitez]

I saw that last night.. they want you to pick it up in store.

 

[MrTuskfish]

There is a forum member who has posted a source. A good search should lead you to the right thread. BTW, I don't think this product was ever considered 'reef-safe". If it was, and it worked, it would be easy to find. The reports on it working in a QT were positive. I have some of it, but haven't tried it yet.

 

[b0bab0ey]

I would think that while the ingested CP might kill the Crypto on your fish, it does nothing for the life stage of the parasite that survives in the sand, rock and water column. You would never completely eradicate the parasite from your tank and you'd never be able to stop using this stuff! I think it would be best to dose CP directly in a bare bottom QT. That way you kill all of the parasites, both on the fish and in the water column. I'm absolutely convinced that CP works; I've started using it instead of copper to prophylactically treat all my new fish in QT. My only issue (and it's a big one) is there's no "Chloroquine Phosphate test kit" to ensure the dosing level remains constant.

 

[Steveb]

I would think that while the ingested CP might kill the Crypto on your fish, it does nothing for the life stage of the parasite that survives in the sand, rock and water column. You would never completely eradicate the parasite from your tank and you'd never be able to stop using this stuff! I think it would be best to dose CP directly in a bare bottom QT. That way you kill all of the parasites, both on the fish and in the water column. I'm absolutely convinced that CP works; I've started using it instead of copper to prophylactically treat all my new fish in QT. My only issue (and it's a big one) is there's no "Chloroquine Phosphate test kit" to ensure the dosing level remains constant.

Which vendor are you using? Are you just following directions on label?

 

[b0bab0ey]

Which vendor are you using? Are you just following directions on label?

I bought pure Chloroquine Phosphate from a friend and dose at 40mg per gal. You can read more about my experiences with CP here:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2136214

I would suggest contacting alprazo on how to obtain CP. (You'll see him in the thread.) He has a contact that sells it and he is far more knowledgeable on CP than I.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I would think that while the ingested CP might kill the Crypto on your fish, it does nothing for the life stage of the parasite that survives in the sand, rock and water column. You would never completely eradicate the parasite from your tank and you'd never be able to stop using this stuff! I think it would be best to dose CP directly in a bare bottom QT. That way you kill all of the parasites, both on the fish and in the water column. I'm absolutely convinced that CP works; I've started using it instead of copper to prophylactically treat all my new fish in QT. My only issue (and it's a big one) is there's no "Chloroquine Phosphate test kit" to ensure the dosing level remains constant.

Keeping the med at an ich killing level is a big concern. That's also the problem with quinine sulfate. A while back, I talked to a few tech-types and they all said the same thing about all of the quinine drugs: they are impossible to test for and they are hard to keep in suspension. I'm going to try CP soon; but the fish isn't going into my system----I'm just not that confident.

b0bab0ey: Any thoughts on the "reef-safe'' aspect of CP? That seems to be a major concern of asonitez; who brought this thread back to life. I don't think any of the malaria/quinine drugs have been called "reef safe'', the holy Grail of fish meds. When I do try this, with an ich-positive from a little LFS; I'll add a couple of coral frags and shrimp too. I would expect dead inverts.