Chrysurus Angelfish ID help

SteelMastiff

SteelMastiff

New member
I have had a Chrysurus Angelfish in qt for a month now, it has been thru 3 rounds of Prazi, and all has been going well, until today.

I ended the Prazi treatment 5 days ago, and was in monitoring before I started my standard copper protocol. I noticed some light blotching patterns yesterday, but didn't think much of it. I fired up the lights this afternoon only to discover something has developed, and in a big way"¦

I'm not quite sure what I'm dealing with, so I'm seeking the advice of others in an effort to identify before medicating. The Angel is obviously bothered by whatever it is, respiration seems increased, and flashing has been witnessed.

Sorry for the grainy video, sadly my phone is my only recording source at the moment, but the image is fairly clear at the 22 second mark, especially if paused. Notice how it almost appears to be thick hairs poking out of it's face.

Thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njj6x-Ro7us

.
 
It is really hard to tell because the video is out of focus. An in focus still pic that we can enlarge would be more helpful.

In the future, I highly recommend treating for ich and velvet prior to prazi. I have been doing this for a long long time and have never seen a fish die from a primary fluke (monogenia) infestation. On the other hand, if you wait for velvet to show, the fish has a good chance of being a goner.

Anyway from the video, my differential diagnosis would be saprolegnia first or other fungal, an echo parasite like crypto, and last lymphocytosis.

Switch formalin IMO.
 
I've attached a few pics"¦ I could do a Formalin dip, I have Formalin 37%, but I worry if there are any open wounds. I also have Metronidazole, Kannaplex, Parinox, Paricide D, Maracyn Plus, Maracyn 2, Paraguard, PraziPro, Coppersafe, and Cupramine. I haven't come across anything that manifested itself, or appeared like this before. It's patchy in some areas, and others, primarily on its face, looks like protruding hairs.








 
I looks like saprolegnia. Formalin will clear the external stuff. The problem is that the infection is opportunistic and only occurs with a severely reduced immune system. It also grows better in hypo salinity so if you are in hypo, add salt. Btw copper is an immunosuppressant, so either pull it out or check your levels.

About 7-8 years ago I posted a thread about saprolegnia. Do a search. I did a biopsy and was able to make the diagnosis on pathology. I believe I posted pics, but is was on the old RC so I'm not not sure they are there. Anyway there should be some good info in the thread if you can find it. After an issue with a moderator, they locked me out of the search function so I can't help you find it. Sorry.
 
Thanks for the info guys... I haven't run him thru copper, just the prazi, and a paraguard bath. As for open wounds, not certain, I'm going to try and get a closer look at its side where I thought I saw something. If no open wounds, I should be good with formalin dip; or should I do a bath?
 
alprazo said:
After an issue with a moderator, they locked me out of the search function so I can't help you find it. Sorry.
Click to expand...

Sir, if you are having some sort of issue with your account I welcome you to start a thread in our feedback and questions forum. I'm not quite sure why you keep making these references that site staff is limiting your account in odd ways but I can assure you we're not. The only time you've ever been contacted by a member of RC Staff was over two years ago by myself to let you know a single post of yours was removed. We don't lock people out of the search function, fill people's PM boxes, or any of the other things you've accused moderators of doing. Your premium membership status (which you've also accused moderators of removing) was removed because you elected to discontinue your subscription.

Again, if you are having some sort of technical problem with your account you are welcome to start a thread in our feedback and questions forum.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program :)
 
I decided to hold off on medicating until I could speak with National Fish Pharmaceutical today. It appeared before lights out last night that it had slightly reduced course and was looking a little better.

I called NFP just now, and the gal told me to treat with Paranox, which is there broad spectrum medication. She seemed to think it was parasitic in nature, but I'm not certain I agree.

It looks more like what others have suggested, and appears fungal. Regardless, when I get home tonight I will move forward with a treatment of some sort depending on what I see.

I will say that this hobby was much easier 20+ years ago, it seems like the amount of diseased fish today is far greater than it was back then. Back then you had a few commonly found issues, but no where near the level I have experienced since reentering the hobby.
 
SteelMastiff said:
I called NFP just now, and the gal told me to treat with Paranox, which is there broad spectrum medication. She seemed to think it was parasitic in nature, but I'm not certain I agree.

which one?

I will say that this hobby was much easier 20+ years ago, it seems like the amount of diseased fish today is far greater than it was back then.
Click to expand...

I agree.
 
snorvich, she couldn't tell me, and I was very detailed with the description of what I was seeing...

I dug around on their site prior to calling, looking for anything that might share similarities to my case, and I found this under their "Skin disorders Q&A section".
Q:* My fish has white thread-like or cottony puffs on the skin.
A:* This sounds like a Saprolegnia Fungus.

Treatment:* Treat the fish with Forma-Green for 5-7 days.,

When I got home tonight I was pleasantly surprised to see that 80% of whatever it is had went away on its own; at least for now. This is just nutts to me, as it left behind very little evidence that it was ever there..
 
SteelMastiff said:
snorvich, she couldn't tell me, and I was very detailed with the description of what I was seeing...

I dug around on their site prior to calling, looking for anything that might share similarities to my case, and I found this under their "Skin disorders Q&A section".
Q:* My fish has white thread-like or cottony puffs on the skin.
A:* This sounds like a Saprolegnia Fungus.

Treatment:* Treat the fish with Forma-Green for 5-7 days.,

When I got home tonight I was pleasantly surprised to see that 80% of whatever it is had went away on its own; at least for now. This is just nutts to me, as it left behind very little evidence that it was ever there..
Click to expand...

First, I have never encountered Saprolegnia Fungus, and I have also never used Forma-Green. Glad whatever it is seems to be receding. Sorry, wish I could be more help.
 
Dino, maybe you can figure it out, you have PM.

There should be another post that included the biopsy and pics of pathology. I do not think I posted it somewhere else. I will look. If your fish dies, I would like to run samples through my lab. PM me if interested and I can send you specimen containers.
 
That is definitely not velvet, ich, or a parasitic infestation. Second, true fungal infections are very rare in saltwater fish, I highly doubt it is Saprolegnia. It looks like a viral reaction due to poor water quality, or skin degradation due to a rise in ammonia or from it scratching. I am leaning more towards viral infection. I have had fish in QT go through this during med treatment due to lowered immunity in a stressed fish and less than pristine water quality. It went away on its own when I improved the environment it was in.

I would lay off medicating for right now and focus on water quality, getting it to eat high quality foods, and dose food with vitachem, Selcon or some other vitamin supplement. Maybe a large water change and briefly run some carbon.
 
Last edited:
jnc914 said:
That is definitely not velvet, ich, or a parasitic infestation. Second, true fungal infections are very rare in saltwater fish, I highly doubt it is Saprolegnia. It looks like a viral reaction due to poor water quality, or skin degradation due to a rise in ammonia or from it scratching. I am leaning more towards viral infection. I have had fish in QT go through this during med treatment due to lowered immunity in a stressed fish and less than pristine water quality. It went away on its own when I improved the environment it was in.

I would lay off medicating for right now and focus on water quality, getting it to eat high quality foods, and dose food with vitachem, Selcon or some other vitamin supplement. Maybe a large water change and briefly run some carbon.
Click to expand...

This is the path I have chosen, I switched from 25% to 50% per day on my water changes. I tested the water when I first noticed this and it did show some nitrite presence, granted a very low level, but perhaps enough to cause issues with this particular fish.

Regardless its working, so I'm staying the course. I have been soaking at least one feeding per day with vitachem, and have since day one. Appetite has been good with this fish, other than a slight drop during the first round of prazi, which it did regain.

I appreciate everyone's advice, and hopefully things continue to go well...
 
I've experienced this exact thing, and even spoke to Bob Fenner about it. He insisted that the fish was sloughing mucous due to a potential toxin in the water. All of my parameters looked good, so I did a large % water change with RO and it was gone the next day. Are you using RO in the qt?
 
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