Clarification requested regarding Ich & the QT process

[Dan T]

I am new to reefing and while my experience is minimal I try to expand my knowledge as much as possible from reading and learning from others. There is certainly an abundance of information shared in these forums regarding quarantining fish and the issues associated with Ich. While I think I have established a decent grasp on most aspects, I still feel like I don’t quite get it completely and would like some clarification if possible.

In regards to quarantining fish, it makes complete sense the importance of avoiding putting sick fish into the display tank. So putting all new fish in the quarantine tank is essential. Having the new fish in the QT also makes it much easier to provide treatment if necessary. Most people appear to agree that treatment should only be used when symptoms indicate that a fish is sick and there also appears to be agreement that 6 weeks without symptoms is appropriate before moving the new fish to the DT.

Now the part that I remain confused about, I have heard the following type statements:

- - - - A fish can be a carrier of Ich, even if it currently is showing no symptoms.

- - - - When my otherwise healthy fish is stressed he occasionally shows signs of Ich for a little while and then he is fine. It is not uncommon for Ich to present itself associated with stress, when otherwise it has no symptoms.

Therefore, if a fish can be a carrier without currently showing symptoms (and therefore receive no treatment while in QT) isn’t it possible that I could introduce Ich to my display tank even after following the recommended QT process?

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can offer in helping me understand.

- Dan

 

[sassafrass]

Yes and it takes 8 weeks for ich to complete it's life cycle During that 8 weeks you can use hyposalinity to treat ich at 1.09 salinity then slowly raise it to tank .I think the instances you are referring to are the use of medication.
Lee

 

[Tswifty]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1426833

 

[Dan T]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12911340#post12911340 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sassafrass
Yes and it takes 8 weeks for ich to complete it's life cycle During that 8 weeks you can use hyposalinity to treat ich at 1.09 salinity then slowly raise it to tank .I think the instances you are referring to are the use of medication.
Lee

My question is not regarding the treatment or the process of eradicating Ich from an infested tank.

My question is, if a fish completes QT with no signs of Ich (and receives no treatment for Ich) can it be assumed it does not have or carry Ich?

In otherwords, is it safe to conclude that if a fish completes QT with zero-symptoms that there is no dormant Ich that could result in symptoms appearing later or if the no-symptom fish could be a carrier of Ich that then infects the DT following its completed QT?

 

[Tswifty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12911558#post12911558 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tswifty8
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1426833

Don't just glance at it... actually read it.

 

[greenbean36191]

My question is, if a fish completes QT with no signs of Ich (and receives no treatment for Ich) can it be assumed it does not have or carry Ich?

No. This isn't a valid assumption.

 

[chrisp074]

Its likely it is not infected with the parasite, but it is no guarantee. It is possible for it to have a non-symptomatic level of parasites, although fairly unlikely.
This said, I would still QT everything to try to minimize risk.

 

[Dan T]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12911789#post12911789 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by greenbean36191
No. This isn't a valid assumption.

Interesting, that was my concern. However, I believe it is a common RC recommendation to only treat when symptoms are present.

 

[Dan T]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12911911#post12911911 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chrisp074
Its likely it is not infected with the parasite, but it is no guarantee. It is possible for it to have a non-symptomatic level of parasites, although fairly unlikely.
This said, I would still QT everything to try to minimize risk.

I guess it is a matter of taking reasonable steps to minimize risks. The question remains, does the risk justify treatment when no symptioms are present.

No QT = High risk and not recommended.
QT for 2-4 weeks and if looks good then into DT = Better, but with risk.
QT for 4-8 weeks and treat only if symptoms = Typical practice of experienced reefers, but not without risk.
QT for 8-12 weeks with treatment regardless of symptoms = Only way to be sure of no Ich

 

[chrisp074]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12912392#post12912392 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dan T
I guess it is a matter of taking reasonable steps to minimize risks. The question remains, does the risk justify treatment when no symptioms are present.

No QT = High risk and not recommended.
QT for 2-4 weeks and if looks good then into DT = Better, but with risk.
QT for 4-8 weeks and treat only if symptoms = Typical practice of experienced reefers, but not without risk.
QT for 8-12 weeks with treatment regardless of symptoms = Only way to be sure of no Ich

Thats pretty much it, the problem with the last option is that it is like getting chemotherapy because there is a slim chance you may have undetected cancer. The truth is all ich treatments are tough on the fish, whether its chemical exposure or unnaturally low salt levels, so its a balance between damage from parasites or damage from unnecessary treatments.

 

[Mr. Brooks]

The majority of tanks out there are infected with ich in one form or another. It only really shows up when your fish are stressed, generally caused by poor water quality and or overstocking. QT is not only to help prevent an outbreak of ich but for other much nastier parasites and diseases. It also gives your fish a chance to recover from the hardships of shipping. Most fish are VERY weak by the time they get to your tank and are thus more likely to get infected and perish from a disease/parasite. Which in turn puts your other livestock at risk. If your fish has been in QT for month and shows no sign of disease, looks healthy, is eating well. I'd say he's ready to go in the main tank. It's almost impossible to guarantee the prevention of ich into your main tank (it can come in with infected water). Just use common sense. QT for a month, or more if you feel it necessary, If everything looks good, proceed. But don't stress about it too much. If you focus on providing the best environment possible for your fish by keeping your water quality pristine, and refrain from overstocking, you should be fine. Even if one of your fish shows signs in the main tank, it's not the end of the world. If you're doing everything else right he should recover (as long as he's already gone through the QT and is strong enough to battle it). So in my opinion, the risk does not justify treatment when no symptoms are present, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't QT for at least a month. If you can, try to get a descent setup for your QT. There are tons of used set ups for sale out there. I picked up a 55 gallon tank with chiller, uv, fuge, etc. for $300. Totally worth having a standalone QT setup in the garage in my opinion and can be done very inexpensively.

 

[sassafrass]

Hypo-salinity is not hard on the fish, it is very easy on fish thats one of the reasons you do it!
Lee

 

[chrisp074]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12912949#post12912949 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sassafrass
Hypo-salinity is not hard on the fish, it is very easy on fish thats one of the reasons you do it!
Lee

These fish have evolved over millions of years to survive and thrive in the ocean at a fairly stable salinity level. Keeping them at anything other than this over a long period of time is dangerous to the fish. While hypo may not cause as much damage initially to the fish as chemical agents it does have negative long term effects. Most common is kidney damage/failure.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php