Clarkii Larval Rearing (no rotifers?)

[Worldwithin]

Oh, be really careful with the lighting on the fry tank. I did end up blacking out all 4 sides (unlike Joyce's book) as well as using a colored piece of acrylic to cover the top to filter out some of the light. It seemed to work rather well for Batch 3.

:fish1::hammer:

 

[jnowell]

Thanks for thew tips WW, I am batch culturing green wwater and rotifers right now, and did a test run on some brine shrimp just to make sure I had the process down.

It's funny, I've had no trouble at all out of my greenwater, but have lost one of my batch cultures of Rotifers already. I had tried to start a greenwater culture by adding some DT's and Miracle Grow to some dechlorinated tap water. It didn't grow, so I thought i'd add some rotifers to it, they quickly died. My guess is that rotifers and Miracle Grow don't mix.

I got about 50 fry out last night with my coffee cup scoop method, and only lost one in the transfer. I fear i will loose several more over the next day or two though. There is a significant size and activity difference in them. The larger ones seem to be eating, swimming, and quite happy. The smaller they get, the less energy that appear to have, and probably ten or so don't appear to be feeding at all. Starting with only about 50 fry, I'm not sure I'll get any to survive.

One thing I'm doing is feeding the heck out of my mated pair, in hopes of getting healthier fry on the next batch. I alternate between Mysis shrimp, live Brine from my test culture, Formula One flakes, and Aqua-Dyne. I'm feeding three times a day also. I hope this helps, so far my 100g water has held up to the increase in nutrients, but I'm keeping a close eye on it.

I'll post some pics in a few.

Jason

 

[Worldwithin]

One thing that I noticed with my first batch was that there were a number of them that came out substantially smaller than the others. Almost sliver like rather than fry like. This seemed to completely fix itself by the time batch 2 came to hatch. Since then, I have yet to see any of the "thin" larvae in any of the subsequent batches. I don't think I changed any of my feeding habits for this to occur. I guess the first one is a trial for them too!

:fish1::hammer:

 

[jnowell]

That's good to know. Maybe by the next hatch, I'll be ready too. I'm starting to doubt whether or not I'm going to be able to make enough rotifers for them. They deplete the rearing tank fairly quickly, and my cultures are gradually thinning also. I'm starting a continous culture right now, but can only afford to stock it to maybe 5-7 per mil. Do more cultures beget more rotifers, or am I simply spreading them out?

Thanks for the help, it is much appreciated. Camera batts are just about charged, so once i get the new rotifer tank going, I'll post some pics.

J

 

[jnowell]

OK, here's the pics of the setup so far. Budget clownfish 101, or should i call it "When Breakfast Nooks Go Bad". Thank goodness I'm single right now, no woman would ever tolerate this

Here's the whole room

And the greenwater, tell me I don't feel like a mad scientist sitting in front of this!

Here's the batch rotifer cultures...the middle front is the one I killed by using DT's and Miracle Grow. Left front is good, tall one in back is good, other two were just started this evening.

The rearing tank - simple 10 gallon, all 4 sides blocked out with cardboard and black packing tape. Hood is usually off, but I'm seeing how they respond to one 15w mogul type 50/50 PC. The 10g next to it is the continuous rotifer culture that I just started.

Here's a group shot, don't put it past me to print one of these and frame it on my desk at work. I am a proud, but nervous papa.

Here's an attempt at a closeup, with the water, reflections, etc. this proved to be more difficult than I thought.

If nothing else, I'll be prepared for the next batch. Sure would be cool if some of these would survive though. I'll do my best.

J

 

[jwreffner]

Not that I'm an expert or anything, but if a rot gets in your algae cultures, you could lose your cultures. If I were you, I'd seperate them a bit. It would really suck if you lost your algae.

Jay

 

[jnowell]

I hear ya' Jay, I had thought about that. I plan to go buy another 25ft. of airline, and another gang valve so I can move the algae cultures to the top of the shelves you see in the room pic. Got a Christmas party to attend tonight, so the move is first on the list for tomorrow....good advice!

As a "just in case", I had a friend of mine start cultures at his place simultaneously, he doesn't have rotifers yet, so I'm (sort of) safe for now. His clowns haven't laid eggs yet, but he's getting ready just in case. I'll probably give him a batch of mine if his don't get with the program. We bought them within a few days of each other, but you know how it goes. I know for a fact that the fish never work on your schedule.

Jason

 

[jnowell]

Well, so much for the single 15w PC idea, the fish didn't seem to mind it, but the temp went up a full degree in just over an hour. I guess I could put a $15 cooling fan in my $10 hood...nah. The fry come right to the top when I remove the hood with just the kitchen lights on, I think I'll stick to that.

I did notice that about 7 or so of the small, thin fry have died. I syphoned them off the bottom before they could decompose much. I hope that doesn't become a trend.

Jason

 

[Worldwithin]

It is interesting that you state that your rotifer density is only 5-7 or so per mil. Mine is currently well over that when I mix up the tank as they tend to cling to the walls and bottom. I would have to say that the average I get in my tanks is 50 - 100 easy (if not more) as I have never counted. I will admit that I feel that I have a dense culture for my needs.

Here is my setup

It is total DIY toss it together, but it is effective. Baically, it is a 5 gallon tank with a heater set to just shy of 70 degrees, an air bar under the heater to circulate the water and the continous drip being fed off a 1 liter soda bottle with my IA mixture in it. I also have a piece of floss inside the tank sitting on the bottom to collect whatever debris that settle on it. I trade this out every day or so with a second piece of floss to hopefully reduce the amount of debris from decaying in the tank. Luckily the rotifers pass through it for the most part so I am not loosing a large number of them to the floss change.

Anyhow, since the algae I put in there is not living, I see no need to put light over the tank. Rotifers themselves don't really care about light from my understanding, and also it is possible to introduce a bacteria bloom within the tank with light. Obviously if you are putting living algae in there, give it some light.

I just drained a gallon out of my tank, and in the filter sieve, I took a concentrated drop and looked at it under a microscope at 160x. There were at least 20 or so living rotifers in portion of the drop that I could see (far less than a ML) so I would assume that my density is rather high. It is difficult to calculate given the volume that I removed and the size of the drop... etc....

I would give the larger tank a go rather than the 2 liter bottles. And definately keep them either below your green water cultures, or completely away from them. While they may not crash a green water culture, they definately could turn it into a rotifer culture rather quickly.

If you are looking for some additional information that may help, check www.rotifer.com. They have some helpful tips that worked for me.

:fish1::hammer:

 

[Kathy55g]

2.5 drops is about 0.1 ml, 5 drops is about 0.2 ml. Count the rots from your culture in 5 drops of unfiltered culture, and then multiply by 5, and you will have the # of rots per ml in your culture. 20 rots in 5 drops is 100 rots per ml.

 

[Worldwithin]

Cool... Thanks Kmleah

:fish1::hammer:

 

[jnowell]

Thanks Leah, using your method, my batch cultures that I am feeding from are approximately 30 rotifers per mil (and I had just fed the fry). The fry look much more lively this morning, but I lost six more of the small, thin ones last night. It's the start of day 3, and I have about 40 healthy, and 5 thin fry left.

WW, my comment was that with only two dense batch cultures, I could only afford enough rotifers to STOCK the continuous culture tank to about 5 per mil. I'm using live microalgae and roto-rich, so I bet it's density increases rather rapidly. I just started it last night, that's the reason the density is so low in it right now. if it never gets above 5-7, I'll be very worried

Hey Leah, can you have too much light on a microalgae culture? I'm moving them to higher ground (away from the rotifers) this morning, and i have a spare 24" Orbit 2x65w power compact hood. I was thinking of using that for the light source, would that be acceptable? I have another 48" shop light also, but the shelves are only 36". Would the Orbit be better or worse.

Thanks for the help,

Jason

 

[Kathy55g]

I don't know. Intensity does not SEEM to matter, as NO shop lights work well. I have daylight bulbs on my shop lights. I do think 8 hours of off time is important, as plants have to rest too.

When counting rots, I have found that it is best to count several 5 drop pools and average the numbers, as the rots are not always evenly distributed in the tank.

Here's an old picture of my phyto culture shelves. The shelves were about 10$ each at wallyworld, and work very nicely with the shop lights just sitting across the back. I've now added a second shop light on the middle shelves so I can grow extra phyto for my reef club.

Hope to help,
Kathy

 

[Kathy55g]

I was doing rotifers on the bottom shelf, but I moved them to a place near the sink to get them away from the phyto.

 

[Kathy55g]

At 30 rots per ml, be careful not to overfeed. Better to feed more frequently, but feed less.

 

[jnowell]

Maybe a trip to Wal-Mart is in order, I like the shelf setup from your pic. I'm using NO "grow lights" in my shop light, and they are working fine. My second shop light came with bulbs, so maybe I'll just use that on some new shelves.

Overfeeding my rotifer culture is a big concern of mine too, but so is underfeeding them, cause I need them to grow and grow quick! I keep the water moderately cloudy with Roto-Rich, and it starts to clear within about 8 hours. I always feed a small amount before it gets too clear. One of the cultures does have some green clumpy stuff on the sides near the bottom. I fed from that one today and siphone about 3/4 of the water out and replaced with new water. The two new cultures that I started yesterday afternoon are starting to show good density increase, so I think I will be OK. Now that I've got 5 batchs and one continuous going, I feel a little more relaxed.

The one dense batch that I didn't feed out of today is at 50 per mil, so they appear to be re-populating faster than I am harvesting, but I won't know that for sure until I check them a few more times over the next few days.

Thanks for the help, Kathy (your screen name fooled me, I won't call you leah anymore )

Jason

 

[jnowell]

Just for grins, here are the parents. The male is already cleaning the rock where they laid the first batch of eggs...but only when the female tells him to. Some things are the same no matter what species you are.

 

[jnowell]

While I'm being photo-happy, is this normal behavior?? About 15 of the fry are right up against the glass, head first, just sitting there, they move occasionally, but just hang out there most of the time.

 

[Worldwithin]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6309483#post6309483 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnowell
WW, my comment was that with only two dense batch cultures, I could only afford enough rotifers to STOCK the continuous culture tank to about 5 per mil. I'm using live microalgae and roto-rich, so I bet it's density increases rather rapidly. I just started it last night, that's the reason the density is so low in it right now. if it never gets above 5-7, I'll be very worried

Ahhhhh... I see..



As for the fry sitting at the top of the tank, I didn't really have any issues with those that did that as they seemed to be feeding off the rots that decided the surface was a good place to swim around.

In regards to the rots multiplying faster than you can harvest them... Harvest more of them, but feed them to your main tank. I started doing that just to keep the roti population in check, and noticed that a lot more stuff came out to feed on the plankton bits. Feathers, my chromis, and some of the smaller fish went nuts. You will find that once you balance everything out to your care schedule, your rots could easily double their population in one day. I actually harvest at least 25% per day... Sometimes up to 50%. This current batch has been up and running for about 3 weeks now with no noticable issues in either population growth, or density. So far, so good. (fingers crossed).

Oh, and I did a quick count on my culture... I am currently hitting about 120 per mil. Not huge, but fully sufficient for my needs.

:fish1::hammer:

 

[jnowell]

I'm looking forward to when my population hits those kind of numbers. About 3 days before my eggs were due to hatch, I gave up on the "no live food" method, and ordered 2 quarts of live rotifers from FAF. Since then, it's been a balancing act trying to keep densities high enough for the fry, without depleting the cultures from the original 2 quarts.

I'm not going to harvest the continuous culture until it hits good population, that way I'll at least be ready for the next hatch. If I get a few to survive this go around, I'll consider myself lucky.

There are about 10 of them that are larger and darker colored than the rest. Their stomachs have also turned more silver grey, so at least some of them are happy and healthy so far.

As for a grow out tank (post metamorphasis), would my 58 gallon coral propagation tank be alright? I certainly don't want to crash it, because I have some awesome bright orange Zoanthids that are spreading to everything in there. I have minimal filtration on it right now, but have fired up my Magnum 350 canister on the display to cycle some bio media, anyone think the magnum could keep up with the bio load of growing clowns?

Thanks for the tips!