Cleaner shrimp won't clean ich

[Ocicat]

Yesterday I thought it looked like my pinktail trigger possibly had the beginnings of ich. I was optimistic that it wasn't what I feared, but today I picked up a cleaner shrimp on my way home from work just in case. I only got one, and I got the biggest one they had, because I knew there was a fair chance the trigger would decide to have a $20 snack rather than a bath.

When I got home, I discovered that my new coral beauty was being especially reclusive, and when I got a good look at her, I saw obvious ich spots on her face and side. I had planned to wait until dark to intro the shrimp, to lessen the likelihood of it becoming trigger food, but when I saw the state of the CB I decided to just be careful and get the shrimp in there right away. Also, it's now clear that the trigger has ich.

So, I acclimated him, distracted Fido the trigger at one end of the tank, and then dropped the shrimp in at the other.

Within 5 minutes the shrimp was making his way fearlessly along the sand bed out front, and Fido faced him down in what I at first thought was going to be an attack... Then I realized that Fido wasn't opening his mouth to eat, but to get it cleaned. Not only that, but he changed colors from dark gray to light gray, which was very weird to see. And he just hovered in place, clearly waiting to be cleaned... The shrimp ignored him and walked on right past him.

As the "cleaner" neared the coral beauty's hideout, the CB quit hiding and swam right out into the open and presented herself, white spots and all, to the shrimp... He ignored her, too.

Fido the trigger and Daisy the coral beauty have both made repeated attempts at getting their ich cleaned off during the last hour, and the shrimp is just hanging out, roaming around, and apparently picking food off the rock and sand. Argh!!!!

 

[jiggy]

maybe its full

 

[Angela Short]

A cleaner animal will not erradicate ICK by no means. Read up on ick's life cycle and make a choice as to what treatment you are going to do. Hypo , copper or nothing and most likely loose the fish . Garlic is a mild anibiotic and immune booster (many recomend this as a cure but it is not) but if a fish has full blown ick you better treat ASAP with a proven methode or risk a funeral for fido and Daisy. Hope they make it.

 

[Steven Pro]

There is no proof that any cleaner eats marine ich/Cryptocaryon irritans. In fact, both cleaner wrasses and gobies are known to feed almost exclusively on gnathids isopods. I have not found any data on the gut content analysis of cleaner shrimp yet, but I am doubtful.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

at any rate- give the shrimp some time. it has just had its world turned upside down. When it settles a little, I bet it will start cleaning. Whether or not that helps with ick- see previous posts.

 

[Ocicat]

I could remove my few corals and do hypo in the main tank, but I assume this would be it for my snails and crabs, and I really don't want to have to kill those guys b/c of my own stupidity (not QTing). The fish are more important to me, though.

I could catch Fido, but I don't see how on earth I can catch Daisy.

So it's not even worth it to go get a couple more cleaner shrimps?? Again this morning Fido is continually trying to get cleaned.

 

[Angel*Fish]

could remove my few corals and do hypo in the main tank,

I think that's the best idea considering the number of fish you have - just get as many snails/crabs out as you can & worry about it later (Scarlett O'Hara style lol) Start the hypo (or other) ASAP if you haven't already. I've never done this so I don't know all the details, but if you're going to do copper, I think it will have to be in the other tank as you won't want to use a tank that's had copper for your main tank. Certainly if there's sand in there, you'd never get the copper all out.
Angels tend to be more sensitive to copper than other fish - copper would not be my choice for angels.

Here's a good link to ich information

 

[Angel*Fish]

One more thing - a refractometer is always recomended for hypo - Recently at MACNA (Sept 2006) Steven Pro gave a talk that included results from his study of swing arm specific gravity testers and found that at least while brand new are just as accurate as refractometers - so if you don't already have one and can't get one immediately - you might consider using a swing arm of the brand he tested . BTW he did test for sensitivity down in the lower ranges required for hypo

 

[Ocicat]

OK, some very good news... I just got my first good look at Daisy the CB today, and I believe her spots are gone?! I did not see her eating today or this morning, so I'm not sure how that happened, but... there were a couple very obvious spots on her face that definitely are not there now. She is being shy as usual but occasionally comes out and then goes back into the rocks. I am concerned about getting her to eat, however. I am going to pick up some garlic (why not).

Fido still clearly has multiple spots... He hasn't yet shown any change in behavior. I hate the thought of removing him from his home where he is so comfortable, and his little den in the rocks where he goes all the time, but I am wondering if I should just remove & QT only him. Visibly, he clearly has the worst of it, and I think maybe he's the one who was carrying it to begin with.

 

[mike89t]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8274459#post8274459 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ocicat
OK, some very good news... I just got my first good look at Daisy the CB today, and I believe her spots are gone?! I did not see her eating today or this morning, so I'm not sure how that happened, but... there were a couple very obvious spots on her face that definitely are not there now. She is being shy as usual but occasionally comes out and then goes back into the rocks. I am concerned about getting her to eat, however. I am going to pick up some garlic (why not).

Fido still clearly has multiple spots... He hasn't yet shown any change in behavior. I hate the thought of removing him from his home where he is so comfortable, and his little den in the rocks where he goes all the time, but I am wondering if I should just remove & QT only him. Visibly, he clearly has the worst of it, and I think maybe he's the one who was carrying it to begin with.

That is just the natural life cycle of Ich. It feeds on the fish for a day or two then falls off to reproduce. In a week or so the Ich attacks the fish again with much great numbers.

You might want to read up on Ich and the treatment options:

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/marineich.html

IMO your best option is to move both fish to a QT and run Hypo or Copper on them. I just recently had to do the same.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

OK, some bad news- your ick is not gone. It will go through life cycles where it appears gone, but it will come back.

To answer an earlier question, I still think you should get more ckleaner shrimp. I am a huge fan of them, and the fish obvious enhjoy their services. Although they likely wont cure ick, they can claen your fish of necrotic tissue, clean any open sites, etc., and may even knock off a few ick cysts in the process. They will overall make your fish healthier and less stressed. Now if your going to hypo the main tank, they wouldnt like that much, so pick your battles.

 

[Miggy]

White spot goes through a cycle, so you may not see it on the fish at the moment but tomorrow it may appear on the fish again.

 

[bureau13]

I've found that, MOST of the time, fish traps work better than actively trying to catch them. The more aggressive the eater, the easier they are to trap, however I'm not so sure how easy it will be to get a fish that isn't showing any interest in food.

Taking out the one fish for quarantine will do nothing other than provide a temporary solution for that fish. If ich is there in the tank, it will still be in the tank when the fish returns.

jds

 

[I like Triggers]

how low is a safe level to drop the salinity to? also, how gradual should the salinity drop be? over a couple days, a week...?

 

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8274752#post8274752 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by I like Triggers
how low is a safe level to drop the salinity to? also, how gradual should the salinity drop be? over a couple days, a week...?

Dude, there have already been 2 great links posted to this thread giving detailed info about that

 

[mike89t]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8274752#post8274752 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by I like Triggers
how low is a safe level to drop the salinity to? also, how gradual should the salinity drop be? over a couple days, a week...?

Here ya go

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html

 

[jwd007]

Go to NOSICKFISH.COM This company has a line of REEF SAFE meds which I am in love with! Thier ick and bacteria meds are the greatest. And you don't have to worry about catching fish or removing clams or corals.

 

[mike89t]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8274960#post8274960 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jwd007
Go to NOSICKFISH.COM This company has a line of REEF SAFE meds which I am in love with! Thier ick and bacteria meds are the greatest. And you don't have to worry about catching fish or removing clams or corals.

If there was truely a reef safe medication that removed Ich from a reef tank without affecting any of your invertibrates it would be the hottest selling product on the market.

 

[Ocicat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8274570#post8274570 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mike89t
That is just the natural life cycle of Ich. It feeds on the fish for a day or two then falls off to reproduce. In a week or so the Ich attacks the fish again with much great numbers.

OK, that's enough for me... I'm going to hypo the tank.

Even if I could catch the CB, that would create another problem - during her absence, the flame (which is already giving her some trouble) would decide he completely owns the tank by the time she gets back.

I've decided to remove my corals and as many snails/crabs as I can find and hypo the main tank.

 

[Ocicat]

I'm also going to get garlic extract and some live brine to try to get the CB eating actively... She seems to be eyeing the rock with interest but I haven't seen her peck at anything in a day.