Clearing up named corals

[Big E]

Sorry Erik, there are no rules, it's buyer beware. A person can name & sell their corals any way they choose. There are no selling practices followed.

Those name brand corals demand the high price because they've been known to continue to be a high quality coral

Who say's, based on what? They demand a high price because they are hyped up. 90% of the LE stuff isn't anything special. I go out of my way not to buy named corals as the whole thing disgusts me.

If people are patient they can get almost anything cheap regardless of name. I remember when Leng sey caps were the rage & now people can't give them away.

The only corals that command high prices on a continual basis are the good looking slow growers like the purple monster.

do buy a good share of name brand corals for one reason.
The track record is proven.... This coral holds it's color, does well and is proven in the hobby

Not to pick on you, but what track record? These corals have a name slapped on them & are just a new color combo that the majority of hobbyists haven't seen to date. LE doesn't stand for anything & means nothing. It doesn't give corals some pedigree of hardiness, color, or anything else...........just marketing hype.

 

[Kreeger1]

Sorry Erik, there are no rules, it's buyer beware. A person can name & sell their corals any way they choose. There are no selling practices followed

Guess I no who not to buy again from in the future . If theres no rules system it's things like fragswaps will get out of hand

There's common sense guide lines and just good practice and faith in people that you shouldn't rip someone off buy naming something that is just play not that.

Track record FORSURE.

Take a look at the tyree website, those 95% of those corals have been ther e for years. And ones that are new and don't hold there color he removes from the LE list.

Nope, Not concerned with the name. Most of my corals aren't named corals. I'm just concerned with people selling stuff that looks like the LE corals as LE corals.

Zoo's are a real different story though, I really don't think there are many LE zoo's just a bunch of zoo's with names on them.

 

[fambrough]

load of

load of

I have to disagree with much of what's written here. I find the whole idea of a pedigree system for coral propogation rediculous. Even more rediculous than the bizarre, hyperbolic names given to corals. Rather than lend clarity or control naming (and the selling that follows), a pedigree system would, I predict, worsen a situation already out of control. I absolutely refuse to participate in the name game unless it is the last means of identifying a coral for a broad or specific audience. The most helpful type of naming is the binomial system (genera, species). I realize this presents some difficulties. For example, there are many corals whose biological classification and relationship to other genera are unclear (zoanthids in particular). Moreover, many hobbiests do not take the time to learn about coral classification and families. This is itself unfortunate because it would only deepen their understanding of coral husbandry.

So here's how I am handling the name game. I'll give two real life examples. A couple years ago a coral was sold to me as Idaho Grape. I even sold frags to some of you under this name, none recently. From here forward, if I should sell or trade it, I'll call it a purple montipora with blue polyps (and provide a picture, of course). I bought a different coral, from Erik in this case (hi Erik, it's a nice coral, I like it!), which he said was a Tyree toadstool. Maybe. But so what. Looks pretty much like any other toadstool: green cap on this one, nice polyp extension. This coral started budding over the summer and I have sold a couple of frags, but only using the scientific name: Sarcophyton sp.. (If you bought this coral from me, you got a Tyree, crack out the bubbly). When a reefer friend asked me about my zoas "what are those called," I told him, Those are green, these are bluish green and I call these red. We got a laugh out of it.

Anyway, despite this long post, it really doesn't bother me what people call corals. I do wish scientific names were used, when possible. I guess this is just another way of saying what Tswifty8 did in one sentence: [/B]I think it's a whole marketing thing geared at generating more profit... and basically a load of ****[/B]

No hard feelings. Frag on.

 

[jbmynes]

+1 ^^^^^

 

[Burgman]

Hi All,

Giving the "designer name" to corals does kind of help with a quick identification as long as that name is held true. People are sold one thing & find out it was something else. Water parameters & lighting play a lot on how a coral colors up and grows. A purple platting mont is just that no matter where it came from. It can take different coloration or growth patterns depending on who's tank it goes into. Maybe for the next swap meet we can start a trend and just call our corals what they are(zoos,monti,acros) along with a color description and be done with it. Sounds a whole lot simpler that Purple people eater pumkin eagle eye colored zoos.

Dave

 

[Big E]

Guess I no who not to buy again from in the future . If theres no rules system it's things like fragswaps will get out of hand

Lol.....I'm one of the fools that sells LE corals at a 75% discount instead of trying to rape people.

Unfortunately frag swaps are already out of hand & it's because of all the naming, LE crap. The first few swaps I went to I got primo acros for under $20. People sell that same stuff now for $40 cause it has a name.

If I ran a swap I would put a cap on frag prices of $20 & at least an inch long for acros. I'd set limits on acans, rics, & zoos also. That would be a legit swap that people could enjoy & get some nice corals.

I agree with you on taking advantage of people.......... it's wrong, especially to locals. We should be helping each other out.

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

I don't think there is any way to guarantee the origin of a coral sold by a regular hobbiest. Think about it. Even if there was some sort of a pedigree system and someone bought a legitimate Tyree or ORA or whatever, how could you assure that the same person is selling you that exact same coral? Who's to say that person didn't buy just one of said corals and then go about selling a ton of "imitator corals?" There is no way a buyer could be 100% sure about a coral's origin unless they're buying it from the primary source. I imagine that is exactly how ORA, Tyree, and whomever else that has this sweet deal going on likes it.

I have a feeling that this whole naming business is akin to baseball cards and beanie babies. The primary drive seems to be the ownership of a rare object so that it can make other people jealous and sell for $$$$.

As an interesting side note, if we are to be going to an entirely aquacultured hobby, this whole pedigree system would actually work out to hinder the whole thing. What we would need to sustain this hobby would be a wide diversity of corals so that you don't run into disease problems. By spreading a demand for genetically identical corals, you'd be suppressing (to some degree) the sale of genetically dissimilar corals. You'd gradually end up with less and less diversity.

 

[Murphs205]

are you guys really our congress and senate in disguise as Reef Central members ?? some people are more anal than others when it comes to this reef stuff. Myself ,,i have green zoas and some purple ones and some new black ones , and i also have some cool red ones !! Yea you should not skank people by telling them its "ORA" when you know darn well its not , this 300 dollar a zoa is crap ,,, find something close and call it a day ,,,,, for 3 bucks. then you have some new purple and yellow zoas ,,, all of the people who are out to sell the best "lines" of corals ,,, the most of them dont even really know where the heck it came from anyway, and want to charge tons of cash for it. and its the anal's that buy it and try to re-sell it as what they were told it was. I have ORA clowns that are awesome in my tank (from ORA and got the hefty bill to prove it ) ,,,and i call them clown fish ,,,its all what you make of it , or in some cases what you want ($$$) to make out of it .. my 2 cents

 

[Fdfiremedic]

I am glad to see I wasnt the only one out there getting lost in these new frag names. I gotta agree some of these names on corals and price jacking is getting out of control. Glad to see this addressed!!!!!

By the way I have some limited addition ORA/Tyree/LE Yellow Mamma Slamma Jamma bought from Tamma in Alabama for just $199 a frag LOL!!!!!!

 

[funkyman]

I'm on the lookout for:

Walt Smith LE Brazilian Boo-Ya Alien Eye Boom Shocka Locka Solar Flare Mummy's Nip Titty Twister zoos. (All copyrights property of Funkyman Fantasy Names "INC").

Lineage of LE status will be required for completion of sale, complete with a driver's license photo of "ANYONE" who has owned the said zoos between the original mother colony and myself.

Hey Ben.....got any ??

 

[Fdfiremedic]

I only have the Monti caps in that name not the zoo's

 

[Walt Smith]

Hey Funkyman,
Are you just bored or snowed in?
I read that name to my wife and we both had a good laugh. I think I will make a bumper sticker for it ... it's too long for a license plate. LOL
At least some of you in this hobby have a sense of humor!
Walt

 

[funkyman]

Yikes! Busted by the Walt-man. No, just a little insane in the brain.

No disrespect intended. Just having some fun.

 

[Aadler]

I agree with whoever was saying some people are anal others arnt. I for one laugh at zoa's... but wouldn't want my Tyree Monti's and original superman monti any other way. You can't tell me you can find comparable frags of these for $5... sorry.

I look at it like this. I have a small tank (my reef anyway) And I can only fit X number of corals. I want the brightest and widest color/shape variation I can get. If that means paying $100 for a 1/2 inch, then that is what it means. Now if I see the same color pattern at salty for $15 ya id be ****ed, but in my short time in the hobby that has not been the case.

Like i say I am not into Zoas and I think that is where most of the problems are. But I actually think I agree with erik on this one... as a local club anyway... don't sell a bs LE/Tyree/ORA to a local club member... to make an extra $20 a frag... If you can pull it off feel free to skrew over non-locals tho ;c).

 

[Aadler]

If we get two feet of lake effect tonight, If the club pays for my ticket I will personally fly to fiji and beat walt up for cursing us with the snowed in comment ;c). (my yard is still green at least).

 

[Murphs205]

oooooooh ,,the Walt chimes in ,, Busted Jim !!!!
No disrespect intended by anyone Walt ,,,,, just keepin it real with the name game , having some fun

 

[Kreeger1]

fambrough I'd still like to get a frag back from ya some day, I lost mine I think to over fragging it if that's possible.

I still feel If your paying for the name brand coral you should get what you pay for, not something someone is making a quick buck off off.

Have you though about this though, In the past year what has been the hot coral? Years past Its been, indo acans, then assuie, The Acropora Tort, Duncans and Dendro's were last year too. Really in the past year there hasn't been one stand out coral in my mind other then the Marketing plan put forth by ORA
I think they filled the void this year with the people that like to collect the rare and sought after corals. Crazy names and all I do like most of what ora has put out this year and have bought probably 4-5 pieces. I no what Im getting when I buy it, I've seen many pictures of it online, I no when it grows other people will a frag of it so I don't mind paying a premium price for something I no will look nice. I can probably pay the same price for one of there frags as I would for a full grown coral, But I'm not sure how thats going to look in 2 months under my lighting or if its wild will it make it in captivity without bleaching.

All in all the naming doesn't bother me ( some are just plain out stupid) but other then that I'm fine with it. Just don't sell people a look a like coral for as the real coral is all. IMO thats taking advantage of other hobbiest.
Erik

 

[serpentman]

I am not sure why everyone gets so fired up at the high costs of the "designer" corals. IMO, its no different than complaining about the high price of equipment. In the end, the consumer has the ultimate control by chosing how/where to spend their dollars. Tyree, ORA, etc. tapped an obviously needed market or people wouldn't be willing to spend the exorbitant prices.

Ultimately, if you're patient, the price does come down on the coveted coral, however so does the certainty as to where it came from. In the end, reputation is key. Me, personally, I am not in the hobby for resale so I purchase based on what the coral looks like. If I purchase a designer coral, its because it is typically shown to hold its color etc. However, I wouldn't exclude a nice piece just because it didn't carry a name. Even then, something unique is still liable to be more pricey.

With all that being said, I completely agree that representing something that it is not, is simply wrong.

On another separate note, has everyone noticed that our hobby has grown increasingly commercialized? Its seems to me that there used to be a lot more trading, etc.

 

[Walt Smith]

Hi Guys,
As I said we had a good laugh! There was no disrespect felt and if you can not laugh or have some fun in life what is the point?
About the snow curse, I grew up in Chicago and I know all too well about that white yucky cold stuff ... sorry!
nobody was busted and I look in every now and then and usually it's pretty serious stuff or just someone mad about something.
This hobby is fun, enjoy! Stay serious about the important stuff like sustainability and environmental impact but never forget the fun and passion that this hobby inspires.
I leave Fiji tonight for a small stint in the states and I already miss the place. Its 50 degrees at noon in LA ... BURRR!
Walt
Walt

 

[Esquare]

"On another separate note, has everyone noticed that our hobby has grown increasingly commercialized? Its seems to me that there used to be a lot more trading, etc."

I'm renting advertising space on my ORA Duncan.

As far as names go, I bought some Darth Vader Zoas in the Reef Kingdom group buy just for the name. I'm not too impressed with them but my 2 boys love saying that we have Darth Vader in the tank which is the only reason I got them. I guess it's whatever floats your boat but misrepresentation is never cool.