Cloosed Loop

normanviking

normanviking

New member
I know a few guys have installed cloosed loops or are going too. From what you guys have done, researched, or planning to do. Why did you set it up that way and what are some pros and cons? What would you have done different? I am planning on running two Sequence 4200's for a closed loop. They are preactically the same as a Dart, but sucks even less energy and the same flow. I am going to have two inlets for each pump. I do not know why other then everyone else does this. Any answers to this would be nice. I plan on either putting the 2" bulkheads in the back or bottom. Would like to do back. I am not sure how many returns would be good for enough flow either. I talked to Scott and he said run 1' and 3/4" loc-line. He also said to use 2 in and 5 outs per pump. Anyone with this configuration please chime in for flow. I want lots of flow, but not jetstreams. I plan on running two returns per pump through the bottom in the rock's and one to two per pump through the back and run either one or two out to the front. I also plan on using an inexpensive surge device also. Thanks Scott for all the great ideas. I should have plenty of flow, but just want to try and wring out as much as possible. Thanks in Advance, Dan
 
One other thing. Did you guys use ball valves or check valves? And why. Do check valves stop %100 of the water? I figured I would use ball valves.
 
On a CL you don't need a check valve, that's the beauty of a CL, the water can't escape. Ball valves are recommended as well as unions should you need to replace a pump or do any maintenance on the system. You don't want to have to drain your tank to keep your system from flooding if you need to replace the pump.
 
yeah place a ball valve right at the inlet and outlet of the pump either true union ball valve or a ball valve then a union closest to the pump. This way it can be pulled out for service without losing much water. I dont see a need for more than 1 inlet though. Although I did "tee" mine so if a fish got sucked up to the inlet the other side of the "tee" could pull and then maybe the fish would have a chance.
Other than that I cant see why you would need more, I mean you have a 2" pipe and so having 2 or 3 inlets would not be beneficial.
The manufacture recommends a 1.5" or 2" inlet for clear up to 9,000 gph so 1 2 inch inlet is just right.
Anyway just keep it simple, afterall I have a hammerhead with a 2" inlet and actually those pumps only have a 1.2" thread at the pump.
Chris
 
Dan, they make a ball valve/union combo but I didn't like them as I felt the union was too tight when trying to break them apart.
 
I used two inlets because somewhere in my mind I thought that would make sure that the intake distribution would be adequate, but after setting it up and seeing how much flow there was, I realized I was just paranoid. My inlets are both 1.5" enlarged to 2" at the pump. I drilled a bunch of 1/4"(I think) holes into them starting at about 8" from the surface and stopping at about 8" from the bottom. They suck no air or sand. My fish pass by all the time and never get sucked to them. My Coral Beauty pecks at it for diatoms and my shrimp hang out on them sometimes. I have 12 3/4" loc-lines ports reduced from 1.5" tees. I get between 500-600gph from each port. The flow seems adequate to me. I get no sandstorms but I do have little whirlpools above the sandbed in several areas where the currents collide.
 
Cliff you are running a dart also right? Thanks for all the feedback guys. Cliff how did you come up with the GPH per output? Just rough Calculation?
 
Head loss happens, You'll lose flow with any piping. CLM or not there is no difference unless you mount the pump above the tank and have the pipe dump right in the aquarium. Or maybe Paul is thinking of a Tunze setup, with those there is no head loss since you have no pipe involved.
Here's an explanation of how it works, you lose flow on horizontal runs as well as vertical runs and all fittings, its just the way it is, the bigger the pipe the less "restriction"

Anyway read this site I found it's a fairly easy one to understand. It can get complicated but this explanation seems reasonable
http://www.mcnallyinstitute.com/05-html/5-12.html
 
It's a rough calculation of pump gph / number of nozzles - restriction loss. I'm actually using a Dolphin AmpMaster ES5500. It shows 6000gph at 2" head, 6600 at 0".
 
I believe that the only way to have head loss in a closed loop system is if your outlets are above the water level in the tank. It has been a while since I studied fluid dynamics in college, but if you have a cl with the outlets drilled in the top of the tank and start filling the tank with the ball valves open, you will have water push through the returns without having the pump on. This experiment alone shows that there is no head loss in this situation. Now with Chris and Cliff's tanks their returns are above the water level and there is probably not enough pressure to force the water over the water level and through the openings. So these two tanks will have some head loss, but very minimal.

Now there is always going to be friction loss.
 
"As the liquid flows through the piping and fittings, it is subject to the friction caused by the piping inside finish, restricted passages in the fittings and hardware that has been installed in the system. The resulting "pressure drop" is described as a "loss of head" in the system"

Isn't that head loss?
fittings, pipe finish, am I missing something?
Closed loops are no different than a return pump from a sump, I don't see what you guys are talking about at all. Enlighten me, I know I don't understand most of the time because of my Alzheimer disease but I'll try ;)
 
You know thats more info than my little brain can understand! I won't argue about it anymore, I don't think it really matters that I and the info I found on the internet call it head loss and others call it friction loss the point is you lose it no matter closed loop or return there is loss, I guess thats the point I'd make. I dont know the differencent ways in calculating the two.
I'd just buy a pump thats a little bigger than you think you need and valve it down a bit
 
Damn plumbing is expensive. lol Is Lowes and home Depot sheaper to buy stuff at then Marine Depot? With all the ball valves, bulkheads, and loc line it is like $200. And I am planning on having to returns per ball valve.
 
A buddy told me to go to Rampart plumbing supply and see if they will cut me a deal there. He said I can use his company name there and get that discount. lol Might need to drive up there.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9406781#post9406781 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefkoi
You know thats more info than my little brain can understand! I won't argue about it anymore, I don't think it really matters that I and the info I found on the internet call it head loss and others call it friction loss the point is you lose it no matter closed loop or return there is loss, I guess thats the point I'd make. I dont know the differencent ways in calculating the two.
I'd just buy a pump thats a little bigger than you think you need and valve it down a bit
Click to expand...

backing off on the return will increase the heat and make the pump work harder though.

Christoph, friction loss is the loss of flow because of the turns and friction in the pipes. Head loss is the loss of pressure due to elevation. Take a water hose. you can stretch the 50' straight out and it will flow. The flow will be less at the opening vs. the faucet. Head loss would be taking the same 50' hose and now elevate it, you have the same flow coming out of the faucet as before, but since it is now elevated, it does not have enough pressure to force the water out or, if it does flow out, it is at a greatly reduced flow.
 
Check out USPLASTICS.com Eric showed me the elbow's I need and if you place an order from them next week (payday is Thrusday) I would be willing to split the shipping.
They don't have loc-line though...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
OVERFLOW BOX HOLE?
Replies
9
Views
401
allenford6
A
J
Plumbing 300 gallon acrylic aquarium
Replies
3
Views
3K
wvned
wvned
M
20 gallon stocking ideas
Replies
9
Views
1K
MC Blowfish
M
K
Removable glue for 3D PETG and Glass?
Replies
7
Views
606
kingyking888
K
Entropy
Back from a really long break...
Replies
5
Views
213
kfisc
kfisc
Back
Top