Closed Loop or no ?

[OCEAN SIZE]

Hey there - I'm setting up a 220g with a sump on the other side of a wall.

I have 2 drain lines, and I'm considering using:
* both to output to sump, but want to minimize drilling holes in this wall...

* that said, considering linking them (they're 1.5") so there's only one drain tube out to sump

* 1 for drain, one for closed loop, but it seems the wattage for a hammerhead or even an ocean runner VS what they give back is not very good. Power is expensive in California, and I'm trying to do this efficiently

* 1 for drain, one closed off with valve but plumbed to the stand where I could use drain water to fill coral prop, hospital, or QT tanks

Is Closed Loop a dead concept now that Tunze Streams and similar devices give more bang for the watt (by far)?

 

[sdfish]

i just now am putting a tank together an i installed a closed loop. i like them when they arte done right but thats just MO..

 

[reefkoi]

CL's are kind of a last year thing now, I had one and pulled it off after installing some streams and waveboxes, I am happy to have lost all of that piping and the high wattage Reeflo pump.
C

 

[OCEAN SIZE]

Streams cost a lot, but seem to really be the best of that class of devices. The wavebox seems essential too.

The interesting plumbing flow options with a closed loop and foam rock are very intriguing, especially with a 2-, 4-, or 8-way Oceans Motions, but it seems like a huge pita for something that can be done easier and for lower maintenance.

 

[tbittner]

I have a hammerhead for the CL on my 450g. I used locline flare nozzles for each return and I don't have any dead spots in the tank. Everything seems to be very happy with the flow. I don't add ANY heat to the water with a CL either. I'm 100% completely sold on CL's.

In my 120g (which got moved to the 450) I had one Vortech, and three Koralia #4's. They just look UGLY!!! And I never got the flow exactly right. If I would have bought another Vortech, I think the flow would have been pretty good though. They really give a nice, disbursed flow.

I wasn't happy with the koralias though. The one in the 100g fuge seems to do pretty good though.

 

[Untamed12]

I went with CL and OM 4ways. I can't stand the look of powerheads in the display. Powerheads are more efficient and flexible in placement and flow timings. I just couldn't get past how they look.

 

[Hesham]

I initially went with an OM 4-way driven by a Barracuda with distributed returns in my perpetually "in-progress" 240g tank. After finished the plumbing and giving some thought, I decided that future maintenance of the CL plus the energy consumption of the Barracuda were hard to justify. I have now decided to go with 4 Vortech's and sell off my unused OM 4-way and Barracuda.

It's a pity that I didn't think of it earlier before doing all the plumbing work but I suspect I'm not the only one in the hobby to change their minds on plumbing ...

In any case, you can go with either option and have a good solution. If it's propeller based power heads, suggest going with Tunze or Vortech. If it's close loop, the OM 4 way is a great product or you can go with a "Calfo" style close loop.

Good luck.

 

[summer6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12618064#post12618064 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Hesham
I initially went with an OM 4-way driven by a Barracuda with distributed returns in my perpetually "in-progress" 240g tank. After finished the plumbing and giving some thought, I decided that future maintenance of the CL plus the energy consumption of the Barracuda were hard to justify. I have now decided to go with 4 Vortech's and sell off my unused OM 4-way and Barracuda.

It's a pity that I didn't think of it earlier before doing all the plumbing work but I suspect I'm not the only one in the hobby to change their minds on plumbing ...

In any case, you can go with either option and have a good solution. If it's propeller based power heads, suggest going with Tunze or Vortech. If it's close loop, the OM 4 way is a great product or you can go with a "Calfo" style close loop.

Good luck.

Would you elaborate on what A "calfo" style CL is? Thanks.

 

[Siffy]

Calfo Manifold
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2003/short.htm

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=calfo manifold

 

[summer6]

^^^thanks - reading up on all this.

 

[clownnrnd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12613966#post12613966 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefkoi
CL's are kind of a last year thing now, I had one and pulled it off after installing some streams and waveboxes, I am happy to have lost all of that piping and the high wattage Reeflo pump.
C

literaly a last year thing for me. Did the same thing-dumped the power hungry pumps and potentially leaky pipes and bulkheads for Tunze streams and wave boxes.

Chad

 

[Jflip2002]

I went with Tunzes over CLS. The #1 thing for me was the wattage a Hammerhead uses, its kind of ridiculous. It puts out less watts than two 6101s, and uses about 3x the electricity. I mean you dont like to see powerheads in the tank, but at least theyre Tunzes if you see em. Its almost like showing em off I guess lol. I asked a few guys with larger tanks (Tbone and Invincible) and they talked me into the Tunzes.

Tunzes seem expensive, but are they really much more than a CLS?

1) Two Tunze 6101s w/ controller (or a TS24) = $950 aprx.
2) Hammerhead ($345), Oceans Motion 4 way ($345), plus all the piping, plus the extra 200 watts.

So really, what is the price difference? Keep the Tunzes in the back, and you will hardly see em. And agian, IMO, if you do see em, oh well, you paid for em lol.

 

[Mako]

I use both the CL on an OM and Tunze's. CL's are great for running to an exterior chiller.

 

[OCEAN SIZE]

I'm a big fan of power and efficiency. A few years ago, the OM's were just starting to be all the rage. They are interesting and do neat methods of water motion, but the giant pump to power it, plus potential maintenance, make me less thrilled.

I like the idea of streams. I do *not* like the price. Ouch.

I'm considering Koralias or Maxijets (with mods) instead. The MJ's evidently need to be soaked in vineagr to de-calcify after a few months though, which is a PITA.

Process of elimination is having me look at Koralias mostly now.. its a shame Tunze comes at such premium pricing. I already have a wavebox from them for this new build.

 

[summer6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12666463#post12666463 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mako
I use both the CL on an OM and Tunze's. CL's are great for running to an exterior chiller.

Could you elaborate on this regarding running CL to an exterior chiller?

 

[Mako]

Tank is drilled for closed loop with 1.5" bulkheads. Pump is situated in garage on other side of wall. Plumbed through exterior garage wall to elevated chiller resting on pad. Return from chiller plumbed back into garage and then into the house to OM 4 way and returned to tank via 1" outlets.

No head loss as this is a closed loop. Only friction of the 1.5" pipe used had impact on flow which is minimal. That, at least to me, is the true beauty of the closed loop. Allows me to stick that noisy heat generator outdoors where I don't hear it or have to deal with it's heat output and I don't loose all the flow my AM4000 generates.

 

[OCEAN SIZE]

My sump is going in a shed on the outside back wall of my house (in the Bay Area, CA). For me, keeping water warm is a more serious concern than for most.

Looking at the mean temperatures (old data - climate change may have affected this)
MEAN 47.42 51.41 53.21 56.49 60.44 63.42 64.69 64.90 66.00 61.67 56.40 49.58 57.88

The *average* lowest is 41 in December and highest is 76 in August and September.

It never freezes and very rarely hits 100.

ALL THAT said, I'm left to keep the tank warmer (150g sump / 220g display). If I need heat anyway (most of the time), wouldn't it make sense to use CL to get both heat and water motion?

A bank of 350w heaters doesn't get me water movement, but a 350w pump does and adds heat too (though not as much obviously).

Does that make sense?

I'm also leaning CL again now because I haaaaaate how powerheads look and was hoping to keep Streams/Koralias hidden.... problem is, they have to be taken out and cleaned periodically. PITA

Maybe a CL without an OM would be low maintenance, no ugly powerheads, and add heat, which I need. Make sense ?

BTW I very much appreciate the feedback from everyone.

 

[BigJay]

Power cost is an issue on the left coast, with some people complaining about paying 33 cents per KWH at some tiers.

Vortechs cost almost nothing to run, they don't add heat to the tank, and they don't have as much of the "ugly powerhead" look because half of the assembly is hanging outside out-of-sight. The wireless wave drivers let them create some fairly nice waves, and you can buy a battery backup to handle long power outages.

I have two on my 180G system, and they work like a dream.

 

[Sango-chu]

Here's Sidewinder and Reefmaiden's TOTM Jun 2007 with the closed loop...I can't find it...can you?

Here's Reefmaiden's tank which generated the idea...Its ponf foam hardened around the plumbing to make it invisible.

Here's Dan C's TOTM Jun 2008 (this month's) with the powerheads all over it...

Sidewinder and Reefmaiden's tank is the one that sold me on a closed loop...I designed mine just like theirs.
(my tank in process of being set up)

Both TOTM are an inspiration, at least for me, and I thought about cost too. I guess it comes down to the balance between passion and obession....It's too late for me, I'm obessed, but for those of you not there yet...RUN!!! SAVE YOURSELVES!!!!!! Cost cost monster will catch you and rape your wallet!!!!
RUN!!!!:eek2:

 

[OCEAN SIZE]

Sango-chu: I'm also going for a rock-wall, spray foam based aquascaping to hide as much equipment as possible. That's my preference.

Barebottom looks very interesting, especially the expensive aquariums with highly reflective bottoms, but they don't look natural. Powerheads also look unnatural.

So I'm going shallow sandbed, considering putting a manifold in the bottom of the tank with outlets facing up to keep detritus in suspension, but not the sand. Hopefully. I figure its better to have a CL pump do this rather than put a lot of backpressure on the return.

What do you think?

Nice pics by the way - I'm in your camp. For me, electricity is very expensive, but since I have to heat the water more than cool it anyway, it makes more sense.