Clown Trigger in a reef!

[El Langostino]

Has anyone ever attempted to keep this awesome fish in a reef tank?

I was just noticing that several full-blown mixed reef aquaria from Michael Paletta's Ultimate Marine Aquariums have done it.

I especially LOVE the aquarium on page 104. For anyone who has the book, if you have forgotten about or haven't yet looked at that aquarium please do so now =)

a 4 foot 120 gallon aquarium that contains 23 fish! 23!!! Including a school of small regal tangs, a yellow tang, a purple tang, and a clown trigger for nearly two years (at that time, would be 6 or 7 now) doing only about 20 gallons of water changes a month and having zero nitrates! All 20 stony and 20 soft corals thriving with all these fish in a relatively small tank.

It really is one of the coolest systems I've ever seen.

I'd love to somehow get a look at Howard Swimmer's aquarium or information as to how it is doing these days.

 

[Wolverine]

I personally know of one person who has successfully kept a clown trigger in a reef for more than 3 years. That's out of the 25 or so that I know who have attempted it, and it was in a very large tank.

I don't have Paletta's book (this is one of the reasons). I also would be interested to hear about the long-term success of that tank.

Dave

 

[El Langostino]

Wow, 1 out of 25. Terrible odds for the clown trigger, lol.

Definitely take a look at your LFS next time you're there or bookstore and go to page 104 to check it out.

This aquarium uses the Leng Sy mud system method. Anyone else out there use it with these same stellar results? 25 fishes, including 5 tangs and a trigger seems to be a VERY heavy bioload for a 120 gallon tank with so many sps corals. I was really impressed with that.

one quote the owner had pertaining to this system from the book:

"...the number of fishes seems to be infinite with no apparent stress on the bio load."

 

[El Langostino]

I'm kind of hijacking my own thread, lol, but if anone has any experience with the Leng Sy method, please post. Anyway...

I really want to try to keep a tiny clown trigger in my tank with a maroon clown, 3 chromis, and yellow tang....however not sure I can quite push myself far enough to attempt it. I also value my clean up crew such as electric blue leg hermits, sally lightfoot, emerald, and pom pom crabs way too much to risk them.

I'm really looking for one nice centerpiece fish but am having a bit of trouble....

I'd like to try and mimic what Howard Swimmer has done with the Clown Trigger but I feel it is way too risky.

Harlequin Tusk would be great, but I'd have no more motile inverts =(

Majestic Angelfish (Pomacanthus Navarchus), I really like them as well, but am unsure of exactly how safe it'd be with sessile inverts. Can anyone speak a bit on this from personal experience? This fish would be my choice hands down if I felt I could comfortably keep it in a mixed reef.

And lastly, a small Pacific Blue Tang is probably my best bet on all fronts. Readily available, cheaper than the other fishes I've mentioned, safe with inverts of all kinds, and a great community fish. The only real downside is that it's almost a bit too mundane and common for the type of centerpiece fish I'm looking for.

These fish will eventually outgrow my 90 gallon tank, but I decided on the 90 because I'm a sophomore in college at the moment. Once I graduate and move into a nice condo I plan on getting at least a 7 foot tank.

 

[Wolverine]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7217702#post7217702 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by El Langostino
Wow, 1 out of 25. Terrible odds for the clown trigger, lol.

Actually, the triggers usually come out just fine. The odds are terrible for everything else in the tank.

I really wouldn't be in a hurry to copy this tank without knowing more of the long-term status. Remember, tiny clown triggers become big clwon triggers (you also have to feed them frequently while they're in this small, quick growing phase).

I've looked through the book before, and didn't find it to be overly helpful.

That quote makes me more skeptical of the method than anything else. If it sounds too good to be true ...

I've seen many tanks that are "successful" with what I would consider high fish stocking levels and people who tell you everything is going fine. Then you find out they replace a tang or two a couple of times a year, and it starts to seem less impressive.

Dave

 

[El Langostino]

Wolverine,

Hehe, I should have been a bit more clear...not good odds for the clown trigger meaning, not good odds for successfully keeping it a peaceful community tank; i.e. keeping other fish and inhabitants alive and well =)

Not to unload a catharsis on you but I think it's a bit unfair to label the book as being unhelpful as I'm sure many of the systems thriving at the time the book was published are still doing great today and the diversity in terms of methods used is quite interesting and definitely helpful as well. All that being said... hey, you are entitled to your own opinions so I'll just be nice and leave it at that, capisci? =)

You're probably right on at least a couple of areas. I'm sure at this point all of those blue tangs have been removed and the trigger has no doubt been removed, making the tank far less impressive. As for the health of the other fish and corals in the tank, who knows for sure really. You could be correct about this guy having to replace numerous fish, or be dead wrong as well. We'll never know.

Anyway, I'm not trying to mimic anything, just thought that it was a neat tank.

P.S. Vegeta PWNS that little fairy Piccolo =P

I mean c'mon, he's either named after a flute or after the word small in Italian ^_^

 

[technoshaman]

I have the book - don't remember the tank you are referring to. There are some really beautiful tanks in there but overall the book is marred by some really really bad / blurry shots of many of the systems - not sure if Mike took these himself or they were supplied by the tank owners themselves.

Clown triggers are definitely one of the coolest fish you can own but the scenario you describe sounds like a disaster waiting to happen either from the trigger going ballistic (I agree with wolverine here - they almost all turn psycho / territorial / homicidal at some point) or the system cascading down and crashing from bioload.

I have kept triggers - never a clown though. Were I to, I would plan on having him in a 180 gallon tank by himself in 3 - 4 years when he reaches adulthood. Very hard to mix things with them longterm - the tank mentioned is the exception rather than the rule from my understanding.

- Mike

 

[emperior911]

i wouldn't risk a CT in a reef

 

[El Langostino]

Well, honestly, the shots in the book, while I agree some are not the best, you sort of missed the purpose of the book in terms of the other beneficial aspect of it...~sigh~

While some shots are nice to look at and others are not so much, any decent, inquisitive marine aquarist will be interested in looking at how quite a few very successful reef keepers run their systems. Simple purpose for the book...not such a difficult concept to grasp...

 

[Wolverine]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7219246#post7219246 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by El Langostino
Not to unload a catharsis on you but I think it's a bit unfair to label the book as being unhelpful as I'm sure many of the systems thriving at the time the book was published are still doing great today and the diversity in terms of methods used is quite interesting and definitely helpful as well. All that being said... hey, you are entitled to your own opinions so I'll just be nice and leave it at that, capisci? =)

I also should have been a little more clear. I felt that the book doesn't give the kind of detail I like in how someone sets up an aquarium. I think that TOTM on RK and on AA do a better job of that. I also felt that there weren't enough examples of non-American tanks. European and Japanese aquarists tend to approach the hobby with different philosophies than we do here, and I like to see that perspective. I like the tank sections at the end of the MCRA books more.

I should say that I'm not trying to talk anyone out of getting the book or anything. I know there are a lot of people who enjoy it a lot more than I do, but it just wasn't my taste.

Dave

 

[El Langostino]

Wolverine,

Well said. I agree with you completely about the lack of geographic diversity in terms of where the tanks are located. I would have liked to have seen more non-anglo world tanks. The book does a good job putting on display American, Canadian, and British tanks, but you are right about the fact that unfortunately, really no mainland European or Japanese systems are documented.

I'm still not criticizing Paletta as I'm a supporter of his work and in all fairness to him, being that he is a native speaker of English, it was much easier to document tanks owned by members of the culturally and linguistically similar Anglo world.

I hope I didn't come off as slightly surly above

...but once again in a totally unrelated statement Vegeta owns Piccolo ^_^ har har

 

[stykthyn]

there are some gorgeous tanks in there, but half the tanks are owned by the independenty wealthy or public aquariums. this ultimately killed it for me. as for the CT that guy just got lucky, no way I would try one of them in a reef.

 

[ruiny]

I have that book and know of the tank you are talking about.
My money is on that tank not making it more than a year or two.
I can't imagine any real long term success.
Even if you had a 500 gal filter so water quaiity is not an issue 23 fish, and some on the large side, do not fit in a 120 gal tank. There just isn't enough swimming space.
The clown trigger is like 2" in the pictures. And the regal tangs are about the same.
Anyway mabye he upgraded his tank or got rid of some fish as they grew. But I would not want to use his tank as example of what to do.

As for the rest of the book. It is ok but could be better. It is nice to see the pictures and get inspired. But as for real info on how the tanks run it is just ok.

 

[imbuggin]

clown trigger

clown trigger

Years back I had a small clown trigger that did not bother anything. After 2 years he decided one day that he didn't like his tank mates. So he killed/ate them. Including other triggers, lion, and tang. They are like a pitbull one day they can just snap? I would not put one in a reef. They also like o sharpen their teeth by chewing corals. That would suck!

FYI my 300 gallon reef has about 36 fish with zero nitrates but mostly small fish about 20 are different anthias.

 

[XtrmCHoPZ]

Why not just put a golden puffer in there? I dont think he'd bother anything in a reef.....

 

[stykthyn]

clown triggers are fairly freindly when small. as soon as they reach the 4-5 inch mark their aggression kicks in full speed and anything too slow to get out of the way is lunch.

 

[ruiny]

imbuggin

I was not saying that the number was to high, but that the size of the fish is to much.

 

[El Langostino]

Obviously at this point the trigger and tangs would be too big for the tank so logically, we can assume that he sold them and bought smaller specimens again to replace them or he upgraded the tank.

Just a side note, people need to realize that very high fish loads with zero nitrates can be achieved. I've seen one Canadian tank of about 150 gallons US with over at least 30 fish, 7 tangs, of which include a 10 inch unicorn tang and a 10-12 inch vlamingi tang. This guy has had the system running well for 6 or 7 years and has had several large naso genus tangs. When they become too large he simply sells them to an LFS.

 

[stykthyn]

When they become too large he simply sells them to an LFS.

I hate this!!
It is one thing if the fish is too mean or is suffering due to other complications, but to sell it back once it gets too large is ridiculous! Many times you get less than 50% of what the fish is worth, not to mention the time and effort you have spent raising a prized fish, or one you at least thought was interesting enough to put in your aquarium. this is one practice I will never understand! sorry, had to vent

 

[achillesheel]

terry siegel has one in his tank. i thought i posted this before but i guess not. any way, it is the second or third tank in UAs (godfatherly reef). he just upgraded to an even larger tank and has kept his clown trigger along with an achilles tang and powder blue tang AND a sohal tang. along with some other tangs. many for several years. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/4/aaeditorial while i dont believe most aquarists should try this, with the proper stocking strategy and a large enough tank, it can be done