Clown with popeye, treating for 13 days, no improvement

[ACBlinky]

I could really use some help. On May 2nd, 13 days ago, my female saddleback developed popeye in her left eye. I started reading everything I could find, and the majority of posts/articles seem to say Maracyn Two is the drug of choice (Minocycline). I bought some and began treating her according to the package directions, and she didn't improve. Someone suggested treating her with Maracyn (erythromycin) at the same time - the packages indicate this is safe to do - so I tried it. I've been medicating her with both for the past week, and nothing has changed. She can't see very well at all so she's having trouble eating, and the worst thing is that the male isn't looking very well this morning, there's redness around his eye and near his mouth.

The water quality is good - NH3, NO2 & NO3 are all 0 (there's a lot of Caulerpa in the tank soaking up nutrients), and I'm doing water changes every few days in the hopes that keeping the tank as clean as possible will help them fight the infection.

I adore this pair, I don't want to lose them. I feel a stronger antibiotic is necessary, but I don't know which one. Can anyone make a suggestion?

 

[leebca]

Popeye is sometimes mis-diagnosed. Is the whole eye really popped out from its socket, or is it just swollen in parts or areas around the eye?

Some known causes for the eye swelling include injury (scratched, netting injury, hitting aquarium decor, fight with another fish, etc.) which leads to swelling and may go on to a minor bacterial infection.

Popeye though has three main causes - bacterial, fungal, gas: Usually the Popeye is an outward symptom of an internal, ocular infection either bacterial or fungal in nature. It can be brought on by trauma, bad water quality, and/or a decline of the fish's immune system (e.g., poor nutrition over time) -- the same underlying causes of other symptoms like cloudy eye(s) and even swelling of the eye. Only this infection has affected the ocular area, and goes beyond just a scratched eye or eye surface condition.

The gas condition is rare but does occur. It is essentially when the atmospheric pressure is below the gas pressure in the water. If the aquarium setup doesnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t guarantee a fast gas exchange, then there is too much gas in the water compared to the atmosphere around the tank and gas bubbles can form inside fish tissue. The most common event is when you have a pump or device operating (accidently) like a venturi, drawing a lot of air into and mixing with the aquarium water, and that gas is not escaping the water fast enough. Another (albeit rare) phenomena is when a weather front quickly moves in to your area and the barometric pressure drops quickly, and for a short time there is more gas pressure in your aquarium water than in the atmosphere around it and the gas again starts coming out in your fishââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s tissues. These are both unusual and rare conditions in a small home aquarium systems, but. . .it can happen. What keeps the gas exchange moving along at the optimal rate? It is making sure your tank water surface is moving around so that surface tension doesnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t hold back gas exchange. So if you check your equipment and verify you have good water surface movement and a good gas exchange going on, you can forget this one.

Since you've approached the problem as if it was bacterial caused, then having no success with this, the next step is to treat with an anti-fungal medication (e.g., one containing Nifurpirinol).

Make sure your fish are getting the best nutrition AND being fed some beta glucan according to this post:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=785228

 

[ACBlinky]

Thank you so much for the reply. Today the female's eye actually looks slightly improved - the entire eye was HUGE, today it's not quite as large and the redness around the outside is gone - but both she and the male look like they're sloughing their slime coat (whitish coating on their skin & eyes). Parameters test fine, all zeros, so I'm at a bit of a loss as to what's causing this. They both look uncomfortable, they're behaving as though they're sore or very itchy - scratching on the sand, occasional twitching and constant laboured breathing. The one good thing is they're both hungry again - yesterday they were refusing food before the water change.
There's a HOB filter on the tank as well as a powerhead aimed across the surface, so I don't think it's anything to do with gas exchange, this is definitely some sort of nasty infection.
I feed these guys as much variety as possible. They get Hikari Marine 'S' and Marine 'A' pellets alternated with frozen foods (gut-loaded brine, mysis, plankton, shrimp, squid, Marine Menu, urchin & sponge (angel formula) and bits of silverside) and I also offer them Nori on a clip twice a week. I use Kent Zoe vitamins on their food. I'll see if I can get some beta-glucan tomorrow when I'm out shopping for antifungal meds.
Thanks for giving me some direction, wish me luck.

 

[leebca]

GOOD LUCK! :dance:

Beta glucan is the same that humans use. You can usually find it in a health food store.

 

[ACBlinky]

Lee, thanks so much for the help. Unfortunately they both died overnight - something else was going on here secondary to the popeye. I think I mistook some type of infection/parasite for sloughing slime coat, whatever it was caused rapid breathing and death in less than 48 hours. Brook comes to mind, but I don't know much about it. I'm going to do some research, try to find out what was going on so I know how to make the tank safe for future inhabitants.

 

[leebca]

Sorry to hear of your losses. Diagnosis is a very important key.

My suggestion: Whenever you acquire anemonefishes, put them in quarantine and automatically treat for Brooklynella. So many of them have it that it isn't worth waiting around to see if they have it. Just QT them and treatment, and hold them in QT according to these recommendations:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.htm

 

[ACBlinky]

After lots of research, I think I've found out what happened. It was Brooklynella, the one disease I've read a bit about but never seen in person and so didn't recognize. I work at a LFS and I've seen lots of sick fish, but never one with Brook. This was an unfortunate lesson, I feel terrible - I thought they were sloughing slime coat in reaction to the meds, I never dreamed it was a parasite until it was too late.
I understand that Brook has no free-swimming stage so I guess now that the tank is fishless it's safe to add another fish (it'll be after quarantine this time though).