Clownfishes not swimming much..

[shua71]

Hey guys. About 2 months ago I transferred everything in my 20L to a 40breeder. I added everything from the 20 into the 40, including sand rocks and filter. For filter i run an aquaclear 70 with LR and chaeto. I added in one huge piece of LR from my friend's tank. This was all done about 2 months ago.

My tank did go throuh a cycle, but my clowns were fine. Ammonia was at about 0.25 but nitrates were at about 10-15. The guy from my LFS gave me some bio which had a yellow tang on the picture. Don't remember what it was called. I also added in a koralia 750 to go along with my koralia 1, which pushes 450 gph.

When I got the 40 gallon i added in a blue damsel expecting everything to be okay. Didn't expect much of a cycle. I was waiting for the nitrates to go down. Yesterday after adding in the koralia 750 and the bio, i found my damsel dead. It ate right after adding in the powerhead. I went to my LFS to get the water tested and ammonia was at .25 while there were 0 nitrates. He suspects that the koralia created too much flow. My maroons aren't doing well, on the bottom of the tank and apart form eachother which is unusual. Do you guys think its a flow issue or did the nitrates fall too fast?

Sorry for the wall of text, ust lost on what to do now..

 

[edwin-orellana]

I don't think flow has anything to do with it

 

[ReeferBill]

Lazy Clowns?

Lazy Clowns?

I think it has more to do with a mini recycle than the flow and what is a bio?Do you mean boiwheel filter? Do you have a skimmer?:hmm1:

 

[shua71]

Yeah i found the product. Its nutrafin cycle. I do have a skimmer.. I've turned off the powerhead and they're still acting the same way. I assume its because of the drop of nitrate from 10 to 0. Anything I can do about this..?

 

[Rippinfrags]

IMO,, you need to do a large water change and get your ammonia levels to zero. It sounds like your fish are being poisoned by your spike in ammonia. Your nitrates probably dropped because your tank is no longer breaking down the fish poo. Keep running your powerhead and continue to do water changes, good luck.

 

[shua71]

IMO,, you need to do a large water change and get your ammonia levels to zero. It sounds like your fish are being poisoned by your spike in ammonia. Your nitrates probably dropped because your tank is no longer breaking down the fish poo. Keep running your powerhead and continue to do water changes, good luck.

There was no change in ammonia. Thats the thing, its stayed at 0.25 the entire time. Whats funny is the guy at my LFS says that it will always be at 0.25 and won't go down. He also said there was no point in testing nitrites.. The only changes I've seen are nitrates going from 10+ to 0 and the powerhead

 

[Rippinfrags]

There was no change in ammonia. Thats the thing, its stayed at 0.25 the entire time. Whats funny is the guy at my LFS says that it will always be at 0.25 and won't go down. He also said there was no point in testing nitrites.. The only changes I've seen are nitrates going from 10+ to 0 and the powerhead

If your ammonia was at .25 to begin, why did you add fish?
Your ammonia should always be undetectable. Your nitrates went to zero because your tank is not breaking down the ammonia. IMO there is no need to test for nitrites once your tank is fully cycled. To me your tank seems to be a long ways from being cycled, so I would be testing for nitrites. Once again I would suggest doing a big water change, 20 gallons at least. Keep your powerhead rippin and maybe consider adding an additonal powerhead for better water circulation. A few questions for you. How often do you do water changes? What is your current salinity? What is the temp of your tank?

Ps. Sounds like it's time to switch lfs.

 

[shua71]

If your ammonia was at .25 to begin, why did you add fish?
Your ammonia should always be undetectable. Your nitrates went to zero because your tank is not breaking down the ammonia. IMO there is no need to test for nitrites once your tank is fully cycled. To me your tank seems to be a long ways from being cycled, so I would be testing for nitrites. Once again I would suggest doing a big water change, 20 gallons at least. Keep your powerhead rippin and maybe consider adding an additonal powerhead for better water circulation. A few questions for you. How often do you do water changes? What is your current salinity? What is the temp of your tank?

Ps. Sounds like it's time to switch lfs.

It was a transfer. After my maroons were okay I added the damsel and it was fine for another month. Until I added the powerhead and nutrafix cycle. Then ammonia was .25 with 0 nitrates. Your theory really makes no sense because there were nitrates to start with.. I did not change the water but it went from 10 to 0.

I have been doing 25% WC's a week and I just did a 50% earlier. No difference in how the maroons act though

 

[Rippinfrags]

It was a transfer. After my maroons were okay I added the damsel and it was fine for another month. Until I added the powerhead and nutrafix cycle. Then ammonia was .25 with 0 nitrates. Your theory really makes no sense because there were nitrates to start with.. I did not change the water but it went from 10 to 0.

I have been doing 25% WC's a week and I just did a 50% earlier. No difference in how the maroons act though

I do not understand why my theory does not make sense, Just because there are nitrates present, does not mean your tank is done cycling.
Nutrafix cycle is designed to Reduce harmful ammonia and nitrites, but yet you still believe that your tank is fully cycled? Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to help. IMO, nothing changes to quickly in this hobby, unless it's for the worse. I would continue to do water changes and hopefully you will see some improvements in your clownfish. Good luck and hopefully someone else can Chime in and give you further help.

 

[shua71]

I do not understand why my theory does not make sense, Just because there are nitrates present, does not mean your tank is done cycling.
Nutrafix cycle is designed to Reduce harmful ammonia and nitrites, but yet you still believe that your tank is fully cycled? Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to help. IMO, nothing changes to quickly in this hobby, unless it's for the worse. I would continue to do water changes and hopefully you will see some improvements in your clownfish. Good luck and hopefully someone else can Chime in and give you further help.

I'm not trying to argue either. I KNOW for a fact that my tank has not cycled that is not the issue. I'm also sure that the ammonia is not the issue because its always been at .25 and the fish have always been fine. It has not gone up and it has not gone down. The only thing that has changed is the nitrates going down within a day and I need a fix for it. That is the only change that has happened except for the flow, but everybody has ruled it okay so I think thats the problem. Anybody have suggestions? Because right now it seems like a lost cause. Also thanks a lot for the help Rippin appreciate it

 

[Whip316]

I do not understand why my theory does not make sense, Just because there are nitrates present, does not mean your tank is done cycling.
Nutrafix cycle is designed to Reduce harmful ammonia and nitrites, but yet you still believe that your tank is fully cycled? Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to help. IMO, nothing changes to quickly in this hobby, unless it's for the worse. I would continue to do water changes and hopefully you will see some improvements in your clownfish. Good luck and hopefully someone else can Chime in and give you further help.

he said he tank was a transfer from another tank. the cycle he is getting is from stirring up the sand and rock, not a new setup.
i had clowns go thru higher ammonia and survive.


to the OP. they will hide like that when they are put into a new place they are not familiar with. give them a day or two to get adjusted and they should be ok. i would still do a water change and dont add any additives to the tank. let it stablilze on its own. damsel could have been sick or something so i would watch the clowns closely over the next few days. maroons are pretty robust and can survive alot.

 

[Rippinfrags]

he said he tank was a transfer from another tank. the cycle he is getting is from stirring up the sand and rock, not a new setup.
i had clowns go thru higher ammonia and survive.

Yes I read that part too, tank transfers can still go through a "cycle". Yes clownfish can tolerate ammonia, but for how long? And just because your clownfish survived, it probably wasn't the greatest thing for him.

to the OP. they will hide like that when they are put into a new place they are not familiar with. give them a day or two to get adjusted and they should be ok. i would still do a water change and dont add any additives to the tank. let it stablilze on its own. damsel could have been sick or something so i would watch the clowns closely over the next few days. maroons are pretty robust and can survive alot.

He transferred the fish two months ago, so I don't think they are still timid of there surroundings. I agree with everything else whip said, water change, hold off on the additives and watch them closely. Lastly, do not worry about a drop in nitrates, fish do not seem to care too much about nitrates. Good luck!

 

[cet98]

Sounds like it's time to switch lfs.

+1

there is no reason for there to be any ammonia present in a fully cycled and established aquarium...

from Reefkeeping Magazine:

Ammonia is very toxic to marine fish and other organisms in a reef aquarium. While routine ammonia measurement is not ordinarily required in established reef aquaria, it can be very important when fish are in temporary quarters, such as shipping bags, hospital tanks and quarantine tanks. Most aquarists associate ammonia with new aquarium "cycling," and in that situation it is critically important to wait for ammonia to decrease to very low levels before adding organisms (much more important than waiting for nitrite to decrease, for example).

Ammonia can also be very important during tank crashes. In all of these situations, I recommend striving to keep ammonia below 0.1 ppm total NH4-N. If the level rises above 0.25 ppm total NH4-N, I suggest taking immediate action, such as using an ammonia binder or performing water changes.

Here's the entire article:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php

FWIW, I would cease using the Hagen (yuk) NutraFin Cycle, cease adding any new livestock, test your Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate daily, and continue your WCs religiously until there are no signs of Ammonia and nitrites and little to no Nitrates...


best of luck to you and your Clowns...

 

[shua71]

Well lost the female today... Clownfish of 2 years gone.
The male looks to be doing better, actually swimming but still not eating. I still can't pinpoint the cause of this and I do not believe it is the ammonia. I understand my tank is not completely cycled yet, but the ammonia has stayed consistent at 0.25 and has not spiked. People use clowns to cycle all the time (This was not my intention, I upgraded tanks) and its usually fine though.

 

[jbax]

what are you doing water changes with? ro/di, tap or the lfs suppling it.

when was the last time you did a water change?


how long was the previous tank running for? did you clean the sand bed on a reg basis?

 

[shua71]

what are you doing water changes with? ro/di, tap or the lfs suppling it.

when was the last time you did a water change?


how long was the previous tank running for? did you clean the sand bed on a reg basis?

I use RODI water to do my WCs.

Did a WC 2 days ago when the clownfish wasn't looking good. Also had done another one 5 days before.

The 20L they were in was up for over a year. I did not clean the sand bed on a reg basis in that tank but it did get stirred up when I did the transfer. Dumped out all the gunky water from the stirred up sandbed and then just reused it again

 

[rjcranor]

From every one that I have talked to you should always have 0 ammonia, if you are staying at a. 25 something is causing it.not sure what I have a 50 gallon use to water from local grocery store use a fluval 405 canister, Reef octopus skimmer and just have 3 power heads in my tank. I change 10 gallons a month and have not had any issues with ammonia . Even when I've changed tanks went from 46 bow front to 29 then to this one. Only issues was algae boom.I have 2 percula clowns, orange anthias, green chromis, and a kole tang,some coral.

 

[cet98]

shua71
just a thought, but is the surviving clown breathing heavy?...
Its a shot in the dark here but perhaps (since you do not have a sump) the gas exchange in your tank is somewhat minimal...if the male is breathing heavy perhaps consider adding an airstone and maybe direct one of your powerheads towards the surface to "break" the water...

again, this is just a shot in the dark but really want your male to survive...
sorry if I'm way off base...

 

[BluespotLady]

are you running carbon? if it is a toxin, that would help eliminate it.

Add PRIME to protect the fish from both ammonia and nitrite.

And WCs are always good, just don't stir up your sand bed when you do it.

 

[rssjsb]

the ammonia has stayed consistent at 0.25 and has not spiked.

What kind of test kit are you using? I think it's weird for it to remain at this level over time while your nitrates go up and down. Are you sure the testing materials haven't gone bad? I'm assuming the lowest reading possible isn't "below 0.25" or something like that, right? I've actually seen test kits that only go down to 0.25.